How many downlights kitchen?

[Noob2013]

Hi all,

Looking at fitting some 7w LED downlights in a kitchen which is 5m x 3m. The ceilings are quite high too.

There is units all around the room (600 mm off the wall) and will have LED lights under the cabinets.

Just after opinions on how many downlights I should fit?

Thanks

 

[telectrix]

2 rows of 4 each row as a rough guess.

 

[Noob2013]

That was my original thought.

Makes them a metre off wall and metre between lights.

 

[Octopus]

My calcs for a kitchen are no nearer than 800mm from the walls and no further apart than 1200mm, that said how high are the ceilings? 2.4m or higher? If higher I would keep them slightly closer together...

 

[Andy78]

That was my original thought.

Makes them a metre off wall and metre between lights.

This seems a good distance and works well as a rule of thumb. Pay attention to the beam angle though. I have known them as tight as 35 degrees and as wide as 120 degrees.

 

[telectrix]

my rule of thumb is 3ft apart and 3ft from walls. that translates as about 900 sillymetres.

 

[Marvo]

I've cleaned this thread up so please keep it on track.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Midwest]

Blimey, wont went on there? Anyhow back on track! Positioning of downlights is a bit of a subjective thing IMO. Electricians will have differing opinions, and there's the customers opinion. Some sparks I know like to positon the DL 600mm from a wall to line up with the edge of a worktop. I tend to measure the room dimensions, excluding any space taken up by wall units. I can't see the point of iluminatig the top of a wall unit, as under cabinet lights will remove any dark spots. I think that tends to give a more symmetrical appearance, if that's what your after. I then space the DL's out as others hav suggested above. I ted to fit JCC FGLED's, and they have calculator on their website for the FGLED10, which has a higher lumen output than other DL's, but does give you an idea, which you can adjust. I've seen other designs where DL's are not positioned symmetrically in a large kitchen, but grouped in areas for effect. Think you got to be a bit of a Laurence Llewelyn-Bowen for that!

 

[gnselectricals]

Yeah I usually go for around 5-600 off walls to pick up the worktop and then a few in the middle to illuminate.
Done a few recently with a zig zag patten down the middle which people seem to like

 

[Richard Burns]

Logically, if you have a downlight with a usable light disc of radius A (say 500mm, dependent on beam angle) then each downlight should be separated by 2A and be A from the walls of a perfectly empty room, because rooms often have items against the walls that do not need to be illuminated from above then increasing the distance from the walls to say, 2A, means the light is not wasted, this is what is said above.

 

[Resu]

And you'll probably hit a joist with every one! Lol

 

[Spoon]

Logically, if you have a downlight with a usable light disc of radius A (say 500mm, dependent on beam angle) then each downlight should be separated by 2A and be A from the walls of a perfectly empty room, because rooms often have items against the walls that do not need to be illuminated from above then increasing the distance from the walls to say, 2A, means the light is not wasted, this is what is said above.
View attachment 30038

Hi Richard, Just out of curiosity, do you calculate using the distance from the ceiling to the worktop and let it overlap on the floor or do you have different pitchings depending on what the light will be lighting? Hope this question makes sense.

 

[telectrix]

Hi Richard, Just out of curiosity, do you calculate using the distance from the ceiling to the worktop and let it overlap on the floor or do you have different pitchings depending on what the light will be lighting? Hope this question makes sense.

now why does that diagram make me think of ----?

 

[Spoon]

haha I don't know any woman with 8 ----.

 

[telectrix]

my avatar has 8.

 

[Spoon]

You must live in the wrong part of the north mate. I prefer looking at the ----- that only have two legs attached...

 

[Midwest]

Think Richard is suggesting a way of spacing your DL', I use the same calculation. However, always keep the maximum distance between each DL (by the beam angle) so each light beam will overlap. Therefore as Richard's diagram above, but you may have to add more DL to do so, but keep the same spacing (A & 2 xA), if that's what you mean?

 

[Spoon]

Think Richard is suggesting a way of spacing your DL', I use the same calculation. However, always keep the maximum distance between each DL (by the beam angle) so each light beam will overlap. Therefore as Richard's diagram above, but you may have to add more DL to do so, but keep the same spacing (A & 2 xA), if that's what you mean?

I understand what Richard is suggesting, using beam angles to calculate spacings. It sounds logical.
What I am curious about is do you use the distance from the ceiling to the worktop and let it overlap on the floor or do you have different spacings depending on what the light will be lighting?

 

[Midwest]

What I am curious about is do you use the distance from the ceiling to the worktop and let it overlap on the floor or do you have different spacings depending on what the light will be lighting?

Not quite sure what your asking?

 

[Richard Burns]

The layout planning above is an initial start point for the layout because as resu has accurately observed the joists play more part in spacing than any thing else!. As does the intensity of the lights you have and the customers requirement for brightness.
The area you are lighting does have an effect as well kitchens tend to need to be brighter than living rooms so close up the spacing, etc.
120° downlight beams can be very relaxed about spacing unless the scallop shell of shadow near the ceiling will be important.
Generally in a 2.4m high room for a 38° or so beam the effective light area (which is not precise once the lights are in place) is at about head height when sitting, this avoids people experiencing changes from light to dark in normal day to day activities. However if there are a lot of white wide surfaces then you may need to crowd the downlights to prevent visual circles, but it normally does not matter on carpets. A 60° beam angle can be wider apart, but it all does depend on the actual needs of the room.

 

[monjoor]

DIALux software may help to calculate how many lights you need, I think it's 400 lumens for a room and 200 for corridors.

 

[Paulgwat]

Our kitchen is about 5m by 4m and has 14 jcc fgled dimmable 6's in the ceiling and then under cabinet lighting, it's arranged as:-

three lights in in row over front edge of worktop over sink - without these you had your back to the light and effectively cast a shadow over things by your presence - these are on a separate circuit

row of 3 in walkway space

4 lights over worktop L shape return into room

4 lights in walkway through to garage

The 4+4+3 are on a single circuit and come on after dark via a sensor as well as switch

undercabinet light on own circuit.

all of these are cool white which for some may appear very clinical

for me it is down to customer choice depending on whether they actually spend time in the kitchen cooking as opposed to using the micro pinger to reheat things and then practicalities of joist position

the kitchen is supposed to be a work room and as such needs decent lighting in my opinion.

prior to the LEDs there were 12 50Watt gu10's, 3 35W and the under cabinets - the lighting wasn't particularly uniform and the meter spun bloody quick!

Cheers

Paul