Pulling the dno fuse

[M1k3y1992]

As there was an immediate risk to life through a potential fire risk I would have done the same thing.

If the DNO wanted to take it further, crack on and see you in court.

That's what I thought, I was just seeing what other people would have done in this situation as I have not come across this before. I thought the way the technician acted was really unprofessional as he was shouting at me in front of the client saying i didn't know what I was doing. Even if he wasn't happy with the way I did things he could have pulled me to the side and had a chat with me. Luckily in this case the client was a friend

We all can act out of turn, when faced with a stressful situation. I guess that's why the DNO engineer lost his cool slightly. I suspect, given the opportunity, he would have commended you for your actions, but would of calmly explained the dangers of what you did.

Seems you acted in good faith, and for the benefit of others. Having had time to reconsider, would you do the same again?

Yeah next time I wouldn't tell them I pulled the. Haha

I have withdrawn the DNO fuse in the past, the reason was the meter was smoking and arcing, I contacted the DNO for an emergency attendance and got he usual rhetoric on the phone about withdrawing the fuse and that it is illegal to interfere with their property, after telling them the reason their attitude quickly changed and it wasn't taken any further.

Having said this though, even in said situation there can be some big risks in doing so, especially if the cutout is damaged or aged, I have seen DNO cutout installers/upgraders on a few occasions refuse to touch the cutouts until power is removed upstream, when even the DNO won't pull the fuse live, you have to realise that the consequences can be deadly especially if you are ignorant to the possible risks.

I totally understood the risks and I felt it was the safest thing to do at the time, I would not have pulled them if there was any signs of physical damage or danger to the cut out itself

 

[M1k3y1992]

As several others have already said, and in my opinion, you did the right thing and I would have done exactly the same from the information you've posted.

Sounds like the DNO guy was just being a jobsworth.

You mentioned you took photos... I'm sure I'm not the only one who would like to see.

Like I say when I first arrived I didn't have my van on me so I had no way of telling What was live and dead, I presumed it had blown the main fuse but I couldn't be certain so I pulled the fuses. The whole lot was so hot you could barely touch it.

 

[Darkwood]

@M1k3y1992

My post was a general approach or attitude to doing a DNO fuse withdrawal it was not in response to your situation directly , I think the Engineer was a prat for his approach and kicking off like that, like has been said, if there was an immediate danger to life or property IE it could burn the house down then if it is safe to do so you are allowed to withdraw the fuse and immediately inform the DNO of the situe', you did this and it seems you had the bad look to be attended by a self righteous 'jobsworth' (to repeat SparkyChicks words).. like you say it is lucky it's your friend or I would have been making a formal complaint to the DNO about their onsite attitude and manner.

 

[Pete999]

Like I say when I first arrived I didn't have my van on me so I had no way of telling What was live and dead, I presumed it had blown the main fuse but I couldn't be certain so I pulled the fuses. The whole lot was so hot you could barely touch it.


View attachment 37903

Don't look like any DNO fuse to me.

 

[telectrix]

done exactly the same a couple of times. both times DNO representative said i should not have touched it, but , off the record, he said it was the right thing to do. read that as you will.

 

[M1k3y1992]

Don't look like any DNO fuse to me.

That was the switch fuse that was supplied from the meter, to isolate it I had to pull the dno fuses

 

[Darkwood]

Looking at the Photo I might have to partly agree that this didn't require you to interfere with the DNO's equipment, you had isolated the load and as long as you ensured no one went near the equipment or disturbed that cable(tail) then a DNO emergency call-out would have sufficed, given it in a metal enclosure with no real flammable parts contained in there I cannot myself consider this an immediate risk to life or property.. if concerned and as a qualified sparks you could have waited the usually 1 to 2hr response to ensure no-one got curious.

You would have had other options here too, you could with the correct PPE and insulated tools just cut the offending Tail at a safe point and dressed the live end with tape while you waited on the DNO, remaining on site meant this simple solution would have been fine although just taping the live end up and leaving would not be the right move, you would also need to inform the DNO engineer of your action so (s)he is fully aware of the small risk posed.

I suspect and with all the red tape we have to climb through nowadays with H&S that if you work for anyone then this may not have been an option but working live is a last resort and due to the situation I would say this could be done easily and safely with minimal risk with the correct equipment.

 

[Darkwood]

Myself, (and I work live a lot because of my line of work) I would have cut all tails and made safe, fitted henley blocks and terminated live and then replaced the switchgear and tailed up to the henleys.. but like I say, we live in times where you have to evacuate the shopping center because there's a crack in a light switch :O /

So for practical purposes of giving safe advice and limiting risk...Don't do this at home!

 

[Pete999]

That was the switch fuse that was supplied from the meter, to isolate it I had to pull the dno fuses

Right a misunderstanding.

 

[M1k3y1992]

Looking at the Photo I might have to partly agree that this didn't require you to interfere with the DNO's equipment, you had isolated the load and as long as you ensured no one went near the equipment or disturbed that cable(tail) then a DNO emergency call-out would have sufficed, given it in a metal enclosure with no real flammable parts contained in there I cannot myself consider this an immediate risk to life or property.. if concerned and as a qualified sparks you could have waited the usually 1 to 2hr response to ensure no-one got curious.

You would have had other options here too, you could with the correct PPE and insulated tools just cut the offending Tail at a safe point and dressed the live end with tape while you waited on the DNO, remaining on site meant this simple solution would have been fine although just taping the live end up and leaving would not be the right move, you would also need to inform the DNO engineer of your action so (s)he is fully aware of the small risk posed.

I suspect and with all the red tape we have to climb through nowadays with H&S that if you work for anyone then this may not have been an option but working live is a last resort and due to the situation I would say this could be done easily and safely with minimal risk with the correct equipment.

Thank you for your response, the dilemma i had was the client needed to be up and running as soon as possible. Yes i could have taped it up and waited, and in a circumstance where time was not an issue I would have considered this, but as you can imagine I was under pressure to get power back on asap. With regards to henly blocking the tails, I did this job on a Saturday when wholesalers are all shut and I don't have the parts on my van, but I probably wouldn't have done that live. I did what I thought was best in the moment to immediately remove the hazard.

 

[Darkwood]

Thank you for your response, the dilemma i had was the client needed to be up and running as soon as possible. Yes i could have taped it up and waited, and in a circumstance where time was not an issue I would have considered this, but as you can imagine I was under pressure to get power back on asap. With regards to henly blocking the tails, I did this job on a Saturday when wholesalers are all shut and I don't have the parts on my van, but I probably wouldn't have done that live

Ok - the live part comes with training and confidence, it was an option and only an option if your were comfortable doing it, with regards to pressure from the customer, be careful you don't lose your ability to correctly judge the situe' and act accordingly, it is good when we can resolve the situe' asap to the customers satisfaction but in reality it is what is is and you have to make the calls here not the customer, like I said in my previous post, I think calling out the DNO was correct but think on this occasion you didn't need to pull the fuse yourself, it is my own personal opinion and others may disagree but that is what the forum is here for, to get other opinions... if your ever in this situe again then hopefully your actions will be based on this experience and a reflection on the views given in this thread, just be careful you don't get the DNO filing a court case because you made a hasty decision because the customer was flapping his wings about needing power immediately, had your customer had regular electrical inspections I could bet this would have been picked up and addressed at a more convenient time to him/her.. so in reflection it could have been avoided although it is sometimes hard to call, I suspect it was probably a loose connection that had been burning out over a long duration.

 

[M1k3y1992]

Ok - the live part comes with training and confidence, it was an option and only an option if your were comfortable doing it, with regards to pressure from the customer, be careful you don't lose your ability to correctly judge the situe' and act accordingly, it is good when we can resolve the situe' asap to the customers satisfaction but in reality it is what is is and you have to make the calls here not the customer, like I said in my previous post, I think calling out the DNO was correct but think on this occasion you didn't need to pull the fuse yourself, it is my own personal opinion and others may disagree but that is what the forum is here for, to get other opinions... if your ever in this situe again then hopefully your actions will be based on this experience and a reflection on the views given in this thread, just be careful you don't get the DNO filing a court case because you made a hasty decision because the customer was flapping his wings about needing power immediately, had your customer had regular electrical inspections I could bet this would have been picked up and addressed at a more convenient time to him/her.. so in reflection it could have been avoided although it is sometimes hard to call although it probably was a loose connection that had been burning out over a long duration.

This is the reason I asked the question, to see what others would have done, I want to learn from this experience and see how I can improve. I still feel I did the best I could in the situation though and I never let the customer change my judgement, like i said before, my aim was to remove the hazard so I could work on it safely. What I should have done is put the fuses back before the electric board got there haha

 

[Devonchris]

So you arrive there without tools as your van is elsewhere. You pull the fuses and then go for the van. But you state that you wore flash gloves and a mask.

Unless your mate called you on your way to do a bank job then I think we are missing something here.

Still I suppose its possible you were just out for a stroll in them. People wear anything these days.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There is no law preventing anyone from removing a DNO fuse.
There is a law preventing someone from tampering with the DNO equipment in order to extract electricity.

 

[Pete999]

There is no law preventing anyone from removing a DNO fuse.
There is a law preventing someone from tampering with the DNO equipment in order to extract electricity.

This post has got to be the most talked about post so far

 

[M1k3y1992]

So you arrive there without tools as your van is elsewhere. You pull the fuses and then go for the van. But you state that you wore flash gloves and a mask.

Unless your mate called you on your way to do a bank job then I think we are missing something here.

Still I suppose its possible you were just out for a stroll in them. People wear anything these days.

I was waiting for someone to say that haha, I was doing a job about 10mins walk away when I got the call. I didn't exactly use a full mask and gloves on this occasion but I was well aware I should have done, I did wear goggles and gloves though as I was chopping out on the previous job ,all the tools I had was a selection of screwdrivers. When the electric board man arrived though I had my van and showed him the correct ppe, I thought the risk was fairly neglagable in the scheme of things.

 

[Pete999]

I was waiting for someone to say that haha, I was doing a job about 10mins walk away when I got the call. I didn't exactly use a full mask and gloves on this occasion but I was well aware I should have done, I did wear goggles and gloves though as I was chopping out on the previous job ,all the tools I had was a selection of screwdrivers. When the electric board man arrived though I had my van and showed him the correct ppe, I thought the risk was fairly neglagable in the scheme of things.

Like I said earlier " jobsworth"

 

[ipf]

There is no law preventing anyone from removing a DNO fuse.
There is a law preventing someone from tampering with the DNO equipment in order to extract electricity.

Spot on.
..and I'm sure I'd isolate before messing about with live tails.
I'm presuming, if immediate supply was required, that the owner got by with two phases and limited single phase supplies....one thing is for sure, that switch fuse needs replacing.
An earthing nut, or equivalent, wouldn't go amiss on that pyro, either.

 

[Darkwood]

There is no law preventing anyone from removing a DNO fuse.
There is a law preventing someone from tampering with the DNO equipment in order to extract electricity.

How do you get to the fuses though?... breaking the seals are classed as tampering... bit of a catch 22

 

[ipf]

How do you get to the fuses though?... breaking the seals are classed as tampering... bit of a catch 22

It's not the tampering that comes into play, though. It's the reason for it.