Pulling the dno fuse

[M1k3y1992]

Hi all

The other day a friend of mine who owns a restaurant lost power so I went to take a look for him as I was only around the corner. Upon arriving I found that the tails straight off the meter into the switch fuse had burnt out and one of them was hanging out the box (it was quite a mess and I took photos). As i didnt have any tools on me at this point i couldnt check to see if the cables were safe (although I suspected it had blown the main fuses) so I pulled the main fuses (I didn't cut any tags) as this was the only means of isolation. I then called the electric board to come out and went to fetch my van to take a closer look.

When the man came out he gave me a lot of ---- and wanted to report me saying I put myself in huge danger (in the end he calmed down and said he wouldnt) but Its been playing on my mind. I was well aware of the risks of pulling the fuse but I thought there was a greater risk of leaving it and in the hour the at they took to come out what if i had my back turned and a member of the public had walked in and touched something.

Was he right in saying that I should have just left it because as far as I believe, if something was to have happened they would have said it was the electricians responcibily as it wasn't on their side of the meter. Do you think I did the right thing or could I have handled it any better?

 

[Darkwood]

Thank you for your response, the dilemma i had was the client needed to be up and running as soon as possible. Yes i could have taped it up and waited, and in a circumstance where time was not an issue I would have considered this, but as you can imagine I was under pressure to get power back on asap. With regards to henly blocking the tails, I did this job on a Saturday when wholesalers are all shut and I don't have the parts on my van, but I probably wouldn't have done that live

Ok - the live part comes with training and confidence, it was an option and only an option if your were comfortable doing it, with regards to pressure from the customer, be careful you don't lose your ability to correctly judge the situe' and act accordingly, it is good when we can resolve the situe' asap to the customers satisfaction but in reality it is what is is and you have to make the calls here not the customer, like I said in my previous post, I think calling out the DNO was correct but think on this occasion you didn't need to pull the fuse yourself, it is my own personal opinion and others may disagree but that is what the forum is here for, to get other opinions... if your ever in this situe again then hopefully your actions will be based on this experience and a reflection on the views given in this thread, just be careful you don't get the DNO filing a court case because you made a hasty decision because the customer was flapping his wings about needing power immediately, had your customer had regular electrical inspections I could bet this would have been picked up and addressed at a more convenient time to him/her.. so in reflection it could have been avoided although it is sometimes hard to call, I suspect it was probably a loose connection that had been burning out over a long duration.

 

[M1k3y1992]

Ok - the live part comes with training and confidence, it was an option and only an option if your were comfortable doing it, with regards to pressure from the customer, be careful you don't lose your ability to correctly judge the situe' and act accordingly, it is good when we can resolve the situe' asap to the customers satisfaction but in reality it is what is is and you have to make the calls here not the customer, like I said in my previous post, I think calling out the DNO was correct but think on this occasion you didn't need to pull the fuse yourself, it is my own personal opinion and others may disagree but that is what the forum is here for, to get other opinions... if your ever in this situe again then hopefully your actions will be based on this experience and a reflection on the views given in this thread, just be careful you don't get the DNO filing a court case because you made a hasty decision because the customer was flapping his wings about needing power immediately, had your customer had regular electrical inspections I could bet this would have been picked up and addressed at a more convenient time to him/her.. so in reflection it could have been avoided although it is sometimes hard to call although it probably was a loose connection that had been burning out over a long duration.

This is the reason I asked the question, to see what others would have done, I want to learn from this experience and see how I can improve. I still feel I did the best I could in the situation though and I never let the customer change my judgement, like i said before, my aim was to remove the hazard so I could work on it safely. What I should have done is put the fuses back before the electric board got there haha

 

[Devonchris]

So you arrive there without tools as your van is elsewhere. You pull the fuses and then go for the van. But you state that you wore flash gloves and a mask.

Unless your mate called you on your way to do a bank job then I think we are missing something here.

Still I suppose its possible you were just out for a stroll in them. People wear anything these days.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There is no law preventing anyone from removing a DNO fuse.
There is a law preventing someone from tampering with the DNO equipment in order to extract electricity.

 

[Pete999]

There is no law preventing anyone from removing a DNO fuse.
There is a law preventing someone from tampering with the DNO equipment in order to extract electricity.

This post has got to be the most talked about post so far

 

[M1k3y1992]

So you arrive there without tools as your van is elsewhere. You pull the fuses and then go for the van. But you state that you wore flash gloves and a mask.

Unless your mate called you on your way to do a bank job then I think we are missing something here.

Still I suppose its possible you were just out for a stroll in them. People wear anything these days.

I was waiting for someone to say that haha, I was doing a job about 10mins walk away when I got the call. I didn't exactly use a full mask and gloves on this occasion but I was well aware I should have done, I did wear goggles and gloves though as I was chopping out on the previous job ,all the tools I had was a selection of screwdrivers. When the electric board man arrived though I had my van and showed him the correct ppe, I thought the risk was fairly neglagable in the scheme of things.

 

[Pete999]

I was waiting for someone to say that haha, I was doing a job about 10mins walk away when I got the call. I didn't exactly use a full mask and gloves on this occasion but I was well aware I should have done, I did wear goggles and gloves though as I was chopping out on the previous job ,all the tools I had was a selection of screwdrivers. When the electric board man arrived though I had my van and showed him the correct ppe, I thought the risk was fairly neglagable in the scheme of things.

Like I said earlier " jobsworth"

 

[ipf]

There is no law preventing anyone from removing a DNO fuse.
There is a law preventing someone from tampering with the DNO equipment in order to extract electricity.

Spot on.
..and I'm sure I'd isolate before messing about with live tails.
I'm presuming, if immediate supply was required, that the owner got by with two phases and limited single phase supplies....one thing is for sure, that switch fuse needs replacing.
An earthing nut, or equivalent, wouldn't go amiss on that pyro, either.

 

[Darkwood]

There is no law preventing anyone from removing a DNO fuse.
There is a law preventing someone from tampering with the DNO equipment in order to extract electricity.

How do you get to the fuses though?... breaking the seals are classed as tampering... bit of a catch 22

 

[ipf]

How do you get to the fuses though?... breaking the seals are classed as tampering... bit of a catch 22

It's not the tampering that comes into play, though. It's the reason for it.

 

[Darkwood]

It's not the tampering that comes into play, though. It's the reason for it.

Was more of a comical remark not a statement as to the legality of the situe' .... it's like anything, you can break into someones house to rescue them in say a fire condition where as normally breaking and entering is frowned upon

 

[Billsays]

You did the right thing, with the right intentions of saving life and property. The network guy was just doing what all network guys seem to do, overstating there own importance. You are probably more qualified than him anyway............And as for some of the more nervous members on the forum telling you to be careful the DNO doesn't prosecute!
Show me a sparks who hasn't broken a seal or pulled a main fuse and I'll show you a Liar

 

[M1k3y1992]

Spot on.
..and I'm sure I'd isolate before messing about with live tails.
I'm presuming, if immediate supply was required, that the owner got by with two phases and limited single phase supplies....one thing is for sure, that switch fuse needs replacing.
An earthing nut, or equivalent, wouldn't go amiss on that pyro, either.

Exactly what I have done and what I plan on doing. Best I could do on a Saturday with what I had on my van.

 

[Phil Thompson]

IMO OP did the right thing.

E@WR states no working live. So that voids the cut live cable & tape up or Henley block it.

Your duty is the safety of
1. Persons
2. Livestock
3. Property
In that order.

So with people in the building it was safest option to pull the DNo fuse imo.

 

[Darkwood]

You did the right thing, with the right intentions of saving life and property. The network guy was just doing what all network guys seem to do, overstating there own importance. You are probably more qualified than him anyway............And as for some of the more nervous members on the forum telling you to be careful the DNO doesn't prosecute!
Show me a sparks who hasn't broken a seal or pulled a main fuse and I'll show you a Liar

I beg to differ, with older meters and cutouts it was rarely contended as it was actually hard to prove unless you admitted it and it was recorded, with modern smart meters now there has been cases where the DNO has submitted a fine normally to the home owner due to the meters been powered down in conjunction with missing meter seals... I know because it happened to a mate, he didn't like the quote from his energy supplier to drop the tails out so he got a sparky mate to do it (not me) and upgrade the board too, because he enquired about a cost and because the smart meter registered a power down while no network issues were present he got a knock on the door and they inspected his meter... he was asked to provide the Electricians details but refused as it was his friend .. he as the house owner was subsequently handed a hefty fine.... it does happen but only when they have enough evidence to proceed and issue a fine.

Smart meters now log times and dates of any power outs, that is half the evidence they need the rest just needs the correct circumstances for them to suspect it has been done, in my mates case he rang for a quote, had he not got a mate in I would suspect he would have passed on the details and shown them an invoice for work done..

 

[Pete999]

Spot on.
..and I'm sure I'd isolate before messing about with live tails.
I'm presuming, if immediate supply was required, that the owner got by with two phases and limited single phase supplies....one thing is for sure, that switch fuse needs replacing.
An earthing nut, or equivalent, wouldn't go amiss on that pyro, either.

Never had earth nuts in those days Mate all down to good workmanship.

 

[Billsays]

I beg to differ, with older meters and cutouts it was rarely contended as it was actually hard to prove unless you admitted it and it was recorded, with modern smart meters now there has been cases where the DNO has submitted a fine normally to the home owner due to the meters been powered down in conjunction with missing meter seals... I know because it happened to a mate, he didn't like the quote from his energy supplier to drop the tails out so he got a sparky mate to do it (not me) and upgrade the board too, because he enquired about a cost and because the smart meter registered a power down while no network issues were present he got a knock on the door and they inspected his meter... he was asked to provide the Electricians details but refused as it was his friend .. he as the house owner was subsequently handed a hefty fine.... it does happen but only when they have enough evidence to proceed and issue a fine.

Smart meters now log times and dates of any power outs, that is half the evidence they need the rest just needs the correct circumstances for them to suspect it has been done, in my mates case he rang for a quote, had he not got a mate in I would suspect he would have passed on the details and shown them an invoice for work done..

Been personally pulling main fuses and cutting seals for over 30 years. Now my company pulls and cut 100s per year. Never had so much as hint of a problem from the DNO.......I think the subbing out of meter reading probably makes it even less likely of a prosecution or a fine!

 

[Toneyz]

Never had earth nuts in those days Mate all down to good workmanship.

Good tight gland ,brass nut, bolt and earth fly lead.

 

[Darkwood]

Been personally pulling main fuses and cutting seals for over 30 years. Now my company pulls and cut 100s per year. Never had so much as hint of a problem from the DNO.......I think the subbing out of meter reading probably makes it even less likely of a prosecution or a fine!

There are areas where you can legally as an electrician cut tails, seal them with temp' seals and notify the DNO, I never said it was common for a prosecution or fine just saying that now with modern tech you may see a rise in it, I still agree it will still be rare given the number of times it's done.

 

[Billsays]

There are areas where you can legally as an electrician cut tails, seal them with temp' seals and notify the DNO, I never said it was common for a prosecution or fine just saying that now with modern tech you may see a rise in it, I still agree it will still be rare given the number of times it's done.

I'm not talking about the times you can legally do it I'm talking about the day to day stuff in the real world where you do it to change a ccu. It happens 100s of times a day. I doubt there will be an increase in the zero amount of prosecutions there are now with the increased deregulation.

 

[ipf]

Never had earth nuts in those days Mate all down to good workmanship.

You'll have to inform me, never heard that term before.

 

[Toneyz]

You'll have to inform me, never heard that term before.

 

[Pete999]

You'll have to inform me, never heard that term before.

What "earth nuts" or "good workmanship"?

 

[Toneyz]

What "earth nuts" or "good workmanship"?

Got to be worried if it is the later.

 

[Midwest]

Your duty is the safety of
1. Persons
2. Livestock
3. Property
In that order.

.

It should be;

Your duty is the safety of
1. Yourself
2. Persons
3. Livestock
4. Property
In that order.

Just saying

 

[Pete999]

It should be;

Your duty is the safety of
1. Yourself
2. Persons
3. Livestock
4. Property
In that order.

Just saying

So he pulled the fuse no injury to him or anyone else, or any pets brought to the dinner, in doing what he did with a little experience, not only did he save all those I have described and in doing so he lastly saved the building from going up in flames.

 

[Octopus]

It should be;

Your duty is the safety of
1. Yourself
2. Persons
3. Livestock
4. Property
In that order.

Just saying

Quite.

With respect to the DNO's I could understand then getting a bit annoyed if meter seals are tampered with but with respect to the main fuse ..... It doesn't make sense.

Jobs worth springs to mind

 

[Pete999]

Quite.

With respect to the DNO's I could understand then getting a bit annoyed if meter seals are tampered with but with respect to the main fuse ..... It doesn't make sense.

Jobs worth springs to mind

With respect again Murdoch, I would have thought that a cut seal would be the last thing on the DNOs mind would be a busted seal, it the place had burnt down, but you're right they probably would have had a bit of a moan, jobsworth is the right description, you can imagine what would have happened if Mick the Meter man had been called, have to phone the office to get permission to open my tool box/bag, then get a method statement, Permit to work and all the other carp he would need to pull a fuse, meanwhile whilst all that was going on the loose cables had started to ignite, you know it made sense, pull it out and argue later.

 

[Midwest]

So he pulled the fuse no injury to him or anyone else, or any pets brought to the dinner, in doing what he did with a little experience, not only did he save all those I have described and in doing so he lastly saved the building from going up in flames.

Not suggesting he shouldn't of, I wasn't there. But as with all things with safety in mind, safety of yourself comes first. You not much use to anyone else's safety, if your dead or injured.

 

[Phil Thompson]

It should be;

Your duty is the safety of
1. Yourself
2. Persons
3. Livestock
4. Property
In that order.

Just saying

my bad, I didn't realise I wasn't a person lol