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Fitting electric heater NOT storage.

Discuss Fitting electric heater NOT storage. in the Electricians' Talk area at ElectriciansForums.net

A company called Bright Heating had done a survey for the rooms and came back with the sizes of rads needed to warm each room but quoted just under 8 grand to supply, fit and remove old rads, and change consumer board, Im working from their stats.
It is an old house, unknown cavity, and each bedroom has 2 outside walls. prob 3mx3m size room with high ceilings. The house detached.
7


"Hello again superthornt",

Just from your description above I can Guarantee You that a 3 Metre X 3 Metre Room with 2 Outside Walls and a High Ceiling will NOT be Heated correctly with a ONE KILOWATT Electric Heater / Radiator - IF it is proposed to install just one in each Bedroom.

I wonder where the other 0.5 KW Heater / Radiator is going IF what I guessed about the locations for the 3 X 0.5 KW Heaters is correct - ?


I am not trying to be offensive but I notice that You `Thanked` the Members who commented on My message to You - but You did not feel like Thanking Me for the message - I find that a little strange.

Regards,

Chris
 
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chris murphy

As an outsider to this thread, I read your posts with interest and thanks (as reflected with my use of the thanks button!). I have recently been involved in the correction of the electrical side of an electric boiler installation (the wiring was terrible) but have to admit to not being too clever when it comes to the heat output/room size/outside wall sort of stuff. I have done such calcs in the past when installing storage heaters, but personally get very few requests for electric heating these days. The last one I did was installing a frost prevention heater in a cellar! That was hardly rocket science. But my point is that it is nice to be able to glean tidbits of info off folk who have more expertise in certain areas. I'll shut up now.
 
chris murphy

As an outsider to this thread, I read your posts with interest and thanks (as reflected with my use of the thanks button!). I have recently been involved in the correction of the electrical side of an electric boiler installation (the wiring was terrible) but have to admit to not being too clever when it comes to the heat output/room size/outside wall sort of stuff. I have done such calcs in the past when installing storage heaters, but personally get very few requests for electric heating these days. The last one I did was installing a frost prevention heater in a cellar! That was hardly rocket science. But my point is that it is nice to be able to glean tidbits of info off folk who have more expertise in certain areas. I'll shut up now.


"Hello kingeri",

Thanks for what You wrote about My previous Posts.

You may have read in some of those messages that My `motive` for being involved in the Forum is to give some `Payback` for being helped by a Member [topquark] when I asked for some information regarding a slightly unusual wiring method for a Programmable Room Thermostat.


In this instance although I wondered whether superthornt was responsible for specifying outputs for the the Electric Heaters / Radiators I wanted to mention that I felt the stated outputs looked much too Low for even small rooms.

If He is responsible for Specifying / Supplying these Heaters / Radiators - I thought that I could help to prevent the installation of inadequately sized Heaters / Radiators - and also prevent Him from having problems from the Customer for installing a `Heating System` that simply did not Heat the rooms.

I imagine that the present Calculations / Cable Sizes / installed Cables might not allow for larger Heaters / Radiators to be installed on that wiring WHEN it was found that the proposed Heaters did NOT Heat the rooms ?

That of course would be apart from the loss of the `Redundant` 1 KW and 0.5 KW Heaters / Radiators - the Costs for Larger output Heaters and I am guessing the installation of larger Cables ?


As He does not feel that any `Thanks` are in order perhaps I have just wasted My time with this.


Thanks again for your comments.

Regards,

Chris
 
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Heehee Umm Sorry Chris Murphy, Didnt thank just yet, was waiting to see what else would come in.

There is no orrence to be taken, At the end of the day, I have taken to this forum for advice and for people to help clear things up and, with yourself, helping me gain more knowledge. I would hate to supply all these rads and then the customer turn around to tell me I have not supplied sufficient heating for them.
What would be you way to calculate the rooms if you dont mind me asking.

Your friendly neighbourhood
Confused.com
 
Although I am not saying that this is the case in this instance, it has been known for firms to come in with smaller "super-heaters" at an exorbitant price so that "energy savings" can be used as a selling point...
It's amazing how many 1kw heaters can give off at least 3kw of heat, due to being so super-efficient. :)
 
Although I am not saying that this is the case in this instance, it has been known for firms to come in with smaller "super-heaters" at an exorbitant price so that "energy savings" can be used as a selling point...
It's amazing how many 1kw heaters can give off at least 3kw of heat, due to being so super-efficient. :)

If it looks too good to be true then it is too to good to be true cause in my book you don't get owt for nowt

3kw of heat for 1kw input what next perpetual motion :biggrin5:
 
If the heater is 100% efficient, then 1kW input equates to 1kW output.

Pretty much all electric heaters will be 100% efficient; there's nowhere else for the energy used to go. In fact a light bulb (lamp) or any other appliance will be a 100% efficient heater (neglecting any light energy that escapes through the window glass).
 
Pretty much all electric heaters will be 100% efficient; there's nowhere else for the energy used to go. In fact a light bulb (lamp) or any other appliance will be a 100% efficient heater (neglecting any light energy that escapes through the window glass).


I know.... sorry wasn't trying to show off but was responding to the "its too good to be true" point. As in 1 kWatt in, nevr more than 1kWatt out!

Thats all.
 
Yes agree, there are some superb technologies offering lower wattage yet giving great results. I heat my home office 8 x 3.5m with a 550w Cosystone heater. I have also just installed same product into a 3 bedroom flat client is really happy. Effective Construction Elements Ltd, Buxton Road, Norwich, NR11. Electrical Contractors and Electricians Ask them about Trade Pricing they can do some good deals.



"Hello mydigitalhome",


I do not want to offend You but I have to comment upon what You stated here:

You are `Heating` a 8 Metre X 3.5 Metre Room with a 550 Watt Electric Heater - and this statement is also applicable to when the temperature is at perhaps Zero degrees Centigrade or below [E.G. minus 2 Centigrade for system design parameter] - ?

I am assuming that You mean that the 550 Watt Heater will `Heat` the Room in Winter Temperatures because it would not be useful to have meant that it is `sufficient` at recent temperatures - ?

Depending upon the amount of outside walls and the ceiling height this is approximately only between 10 and 15 % of the actual Heat Requirement for a room of that size.

Unless You have the most highly insulated room that I have ever heard of this is Impossible !

And IF You have got the most highly insulated room that I have ever heard of it would still not be correct to be stating that people can `Heat` Rooms of anything like the size that you quoted in circumstances where those rooms are NOT `Highly Insulated`.

I am a Heating Engineer - there is NO `Heating Technology` OR Insulation process that can achieve what You have stated - apart from perhaps the `Laboratory Conditions` that MIGHT be possible to create using the Best Insulation that has ever been manufactured [?].

Heat Losses and the Heat required in order to overcome the losses and Heat the room are calculated to suit particular Rooms and their construction / location - there is NO `normal` room of the size 8 Metres X 3.5 Metres that can be correctly Heated by 550 WATTS - even without knowing the amount of outside walls or ceiling height.

I have looked at the `Cosystone` Infra red Heaters - it may be the case that the Infra red heat waves could keep a person Warm when the rays are directed at where they are in the Room but this is NOT `Heating the Room`.

Although I did read the statement about the `People and Objects Heating the Room` [?].


With regard to having these in every room of a Home - as it is stated that the Heaters do `NOT Heat the Air` - this must mean that unoccupied rooms are Cold / not very warm in Winter.


I am making the distinction about `Heating the Room` - as opposed to having a Room where you can be warmed by the Infra red rays - but that could act as a `Heat Sink` for Heat from other Rooms / sources within the Home / Building.


You will no doubt be disagreeing with these statements - as You are a User and Installer of this product.


I don`t want to get into any `arguments` about Heating on the Forum - where Members have been VERY Helpful to Me with My previous questions.

Regards,

Chris - Heating Engineer
 
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I have to agree with Chris's observations regarding the Cosystone heaters. The website is very confused with contradicting statements regarding how they work

Heating people by infra red heat has it's uses and applications but in a domestic situation there are other factors that need to be considered not least is damp and mould that can occur in un or underheated buildings and the risk to plumbing freezing causing burst pipework. In the quest for efficient heating is there a potential of putting customers health at risk leaving them with a damp musty home by using these products.

I find it interesting that most of these innovative heaters are designed / manufactured in hotter foreign climates or am I being too suspicious of the technology and the promises the manufacturers make for these products
 

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