Email Conversation

[uksparks]

CUSTOMER: Hello,
I've got a second fix extension job to finish off. The electrician has been involved in a road accident so I need a replacement for immediate start. Let me know if interested to arrange a viewing.

UKSPARKS:
Hi,
I appreciate the predicament that you are in, but unfortunately unless I can see the entire lengths of the cables I would not be interested as they could be installed in any old way.

If however you can see 99% of the cable runs, then let me know more about where it is roughly etc.

CUSTOMER:
The first fix was done by a fully qualified part p electrician and that's a stupid reply anyway, because 99% of your jobs you wouldn't see the whole cable runs ... Leave it, I'll get someone who talks sense..

UKSPARKS:
You are totally missing the point in what I was getting at.

The reason I asked to see the cable runs is because I being the person who signs it off would be taking full responsibility for the installation methods including the routing of the cables etc, and for all I know they may be twisted and damaged etc, not saying they are, but I nor anyone else will take responsibility for it and third party certification is not allowed.

I was trying to be constructive and ask you that as I would be willing to do it if I could see it, but as you have just sent me a stupid reply, I am not interested.

The fact that they are Part P means nothing in reality, they may have just completed a 5 week course to be an electrician and registered with a government backed scheme such as NICEIC or NAPIT etc. I appreciate what you are saying and you as the customer have to choose someone to do it and trust that they are suitably qualified and experienced.

In 100% of my jobs I would see every cable run as I would be the one installing it not someone else, as said above, third party certification is not permitted, and anyone signing off someone else's install which this is essentially is just asking for trouble as you are taking full responsibility for their work and signing it off to say you did it, so when their house burns down and it turns out it was due to a high resistance joint in a hidden junction box, or a damaged or twisted cable etc, the finger would be pointed totally at me as I signed it off saying I installed it, writing on the certificate that you did not install it is not an option either.

 

[GB.Kayak]

CUSTOMER: Hello,
I've got a second fix extension job to finish off. The electrician has been involved in a road accident so I need a replacement for immediate start. Let me know if interested to arrange a viewing.

UKSPARKS:
Hi,
I appreciate the predicament that you are in, but unfortunately unless I can see the entire lengths of the cables I would not be interested as they could be installed in any old way.

If however you can see 99% of the cable runs, then let me know more about where it is roughly etc.

CUSTOMER:
The first fix was done by a fully qualified part p electrician and that's a stupid reply anyway, because 99% of your jobs you wouldn't see the whole cable runs ... Leave it, I'll get someone who talks sense..

UKSPARKS:
You are totally missing the point in what I was getting at.

The reason I asked to see the cable runs is because I being the person who signs it off would be taking full responsibility for the installation methods including the routing of the cables etc, and for all I know they may be twisted and damaged etc, not saying they are, but I nor anyone else will take responsibility for it and third party certification is not allowed.

I was trying to be constructive and ask you that as I would be willing to do it if I could see it, but as you have just sent me a stupid reply, I am not interested.

The fact that they are Part P means nothing in reality, they may have just completed a 5 week course to be an electrician and registered with a government backed scheme such as NICEIC or NAPIT etc. I appreciate what you are saying and you as the customer have to choose someone to do it and trust that they are suitably qualified and experienced.

In 100% of my jobs I would see every cable run as I would be the one installing it not someone else, as said above, third party certification is not permitted, and anyone signing off someone else's install which this is essentially is just asking for trouble as you are taking full responsibility for their work and signing it off to say you did it, so when their house burns down and it turns out it was due to a high resistance joint in a hidden junction box, or a damaged or twisted cable etc, the finger would be pointed totally at me as I signed it off saying I installed it, writing on the certificate that you did not install it is not an option either.

An interesting predicament for the customer ... and an unhelpful reply on their part. When rewiring, do you ever draw wires into oval conduit or 'capped' and plastered cable runs? Alternatively do you always chop out, lay in new cable and plaster direct over the cable or over new capping?

 

[uksparks]

When rewiring, do you ever draw wires into oval conduit or 'capped' and plastered cable runs? Alternatively do you always chop out, lay in new cable and plaster direct over the cable or over new capping?

Combination of all of them?

 

[Engineer54]

I don't think i'd even bother to reply, apart from maybe a short ''Wish you luck'' email!!

Though i'm sure he'll find a Electrical Trainee that would be willing to complete the 2nd fix and sign it all off as his own work....

EDIT.... I wonder if the original electrician/DI would have been willing to sign off the first fix installation, worth a thought next time a similar situation arises??

 

[andyb]

Am I missing something here? The poor blokes had an accident.
Courses you can help out.
You can't seriously expect them to take down ceilings and start hacking off plaster.
Test it & inform BC of what's happened & make appropriate notes on your cert.

 

[HandySparks]

Am I missing something here? The poor blokes had an accident.
Courses you can help out.
You can't seriously expect them to take down ceilings and start hacking off plaster.
Test it & inform BC of what's happened & make appropriate notes on your cert.

Provided that you clearly state the scope of your work on the cert, I don't see a problem. ie "Second fix and test installation. First fix done by others."

Whether the cert is acceptable to building control is a matter for discussion with them.

 

[uksparks]

I accept your point, but its not something I would be willing to offer. The amount of people I get call and email about, ohg my electrician is out of the country and wont be back for a few months, or had to leave... I just don't entertain it.

For all I know, this bloke is telling porkies and he put the wires in and wants me to sign it off.

 

[andyb]

I accept your point, but its not something I would be willing to offer. The amount of people I get call and email about, ohg my electrician is out of the country and wont be back for a few months, or had to leave... I just don't entertain it.

For all I know, this bloke is telling porkies and he put the wires in and wants me to sign it off.

He might be telling porkies, I accept your stance on this.
If you're uncomfortable or unsure then you should walk away, I would but I'd certainly look into it.
As a matter of interest, what would happen if you had first fixed an installation and this happened? Another electrician should be able to step in to complete the job.
This is my opinion anyway.

 

[telectrix]

it would be down to being able to see where the cases were, continuity and IR testing, visual under the floor inspection, then as handysparks said. "1st fix done by others". then i'd consider it.

 

[Octopus]

I would have avoided the email exchange and gone and taken a look. Then got the number of the other spark and would have called them before making any decisons.....

 

[Leesparkykent]

Most sparks no another spark they trust and could call upon their help in circumstances such as this, so why hasn't he done this instead of leaving a customer in the lurch (maybe through no fault of his own).

 

[andyb]

Most sparks no another spark they trust and could call upon their help in circumstances such as this, so why hasn't he done this instead of leaving a customer in the lurch (maybe through no fault of his own).

That's true, we all have friends and acquaintance's in the trade.

 

[TJ Anderson]

The spark in road accident is fictitious. As is the sparks who always apparently go on holiday when they are supposed to be starting the 2nd fix lol - Who does that!!. As said before you could have just done 2nd fix and test on EIC. With the 3rd Party Cert stuff aswell this is going to be more commonplace.

 

[Des 56]

The spark going on holiday :39:and the spark who has just had a road accident :39: they are getting a little "old hat" as far as I am concerned

I am no longer putting up with these feeble excuses:frown2: as from now I will no longer entertain these type of jobs in future unless the spark has that road accident whilst on holiday lol

 

[sammyshooter]

Think you handled it quite well IMO, they're reply was provocative, but your response was calm and informative.