new consumer unit certification

[Julie.]

Your connecting all the circuits to a consumer unit, do you not test all those circuits? What do you put in the schedule of test results, do you just leave it blank... Thats the first time anyone has given that interpretation..

When you do a new installation then you must certify that everything is correct to the latest standards, everything from wiring colours, through cables in correct zones, testing etc etc. - you are 100% responsible for every aspect.

If you do a new cu installation, you are only certifying your work, so you can re-utilise the old (incorrect) colours, you don't guarantee that cables are in zones etc.

Obviously all testing is required, as is the proper design of circuits for volt drop, Zs, overload etc. Which may mean you have to split or reconfigure the existing installation if you can't meet the current standards etc.

You are 100% responsible for your work, but not responsible for existing aspects you can't reasonably change or check.

 

[Julie.]

For ease, this attachment shows when a building warrant is/is not required for electrical work.

 

[littlespark]

Before I go any further, I just want to point out, it’s not sweat, it’s pure Scottish talent seeping out our pores…..


Anyway… An EIC is required, but there is a box for “ scope of works” where you fill in it’s just a CU change.
Your EIC should be kept with the EICR to prove the work has been done.

What C1 faults are there? They should be priority for rectifying.

Yes, smoke detectors themselves don’t come under BS7671, just the mains wiring to them, but there are new scottish legislation that they may be bringing to your attention. You didn’t say there was any code against the smoke detectors.

 

[Julie.]

Before I go any further, I just want to point out, it’s not sweat, it’s pure Scottish talent seeping out our pores…..

And English talent, on loan....

 

[pc1966]

For ease, this attachment shows when a building warrant is/is not required for electrical work.

There are some odd things there, such as a warrant being needed for a new socket in a flat, but not for an electric shower (which is more likely to overload, and is in a special area for wiring regs)!

 

[pc1966]

Also can anyone help me parse this statement in @Julie. PDF example document:

Note 2 A building warrant is not required for rewiring where it is a repair or replacement works to a level
equal to the installation (or part thereof) being repaired or replaced.

The first bit "where it is a repair" makes some sense as you are repairing a damaged cable by replacement then hardly a big change. But what is the second aspect saying? To me it sounds like no warrant if you are rewiring to the same size/layout.

But at what point would a rewire be massively different to the original installation? Is it some convoluted way of saying you are putting in a new installation to a building without any significant wiring already?!

 

[Julie.]

There are some odd things there, such as a warrant being needed for a socket in a flat, but not for an electric shower (which is more likely to overload, and is in a special area for wiring regs)!

The overriding principle is that if the work could impact others, then a warrant is needed.

Whether a warrant is required or not, the work still must be done to standard, so the work on an adjoining wall, just like a shower has to comply to the same regulations (all aspects).

Not sure it's odd, as the obligation is the same in terms of standard of work.

 

[pc1966]

The overriding principle is that if the work could impact others, then a warrant is needed.

Yes, the aspect about work on shared walls, etc, makes perfect sense.

Whether a warrant is required or not, the work still must be done to standard, so the work on an adjoining wall, just like a shower has to comply to the same regulations (all aspects).

Agreed, no issue there.

Not sure it's odd, as the obligation is the same in terms of standard of work.

What I'm failing to see is how a new socket is a higher risk to adjoining property than a new electric shower! There will be many locations in a flat where a socket is not on an adjoining wall, and it could be surface mounted rather than chased in.

 

[Julie.]

I take it as pretty much what you are saying, if you replace like for like - perhaps slightly different cable run etc. Then no warrant.

But if the rewire is basically a new design, so say you refirb offices, with new layouts etc then this isn't like for like.

 

[Julie.]

...and it could be surface mounted rather than chased in.

In which case no warrant would be required.


A correctly fitted socket outlet is no different to a correctly fitted shower.

If you adversely impact the adjoining wall, for whatever reason, then a warrant is required

 

[pc1966]

If you adversely impact the adjoining wall, for whatever reason, then a warrant is required

It seems to me they could have worded it in a far less torturous way such as warrant needed if:
1) Material changes to walls/floors/ceiling shared with other's property
2) Very high power equipment or multi-storey building where additional fire risks
Do you know if plumbing is similar i.e if chasing in pipes for a new shower, etc, does that need a warrant?

 

[Julie.]

It seems to me they could have worded it in a far less torturous way such as warrant needed if:
1) Material changes to walls/floors/ceiling shared with other's property
2) Very high power equipment or multi-storey building where additional fire risks
Do you know if plumbing is similar i.e if chasing in pipes for a new shower, etc, does that need a warrant?

Don't know, I only look at the electrical portions on the legislation, but it's all there on the government website.

EDIT, just checked, yes it's similar.

 

[pc1966]

The odd thing is the electrical list seems not to cover a CU change? It would do if it is consider part of a substantially different rewiring I guess, but otherwise it seems a like-for-like replacement (the 'Note 2' business) is not really covered.

However, building warrant or not is still has to be done by someone electrically competent to specify/design, install, test and do a full EIC certificate, etc.!

 

[Julie.]

The odd thing is the electrical list seems not to cover a CU change? It would do if it is consider part of a substantially different rewiring I guess, but otherwise it seems a like-for-like replacement (the 'Note 2' business) is not really covered.

However, building warrant or not is still has to be done by someone electrically competent to specify/design, install, test and do a full EIC certificate, etc.!

And to the building regulations of course.

Many forget this, for example in Scotland you cannot have a surface switch within a bath/shower/toilet room, the light switch must be outside, or a pull cord.

Not due to the wiring regs, but because of Scottish building regulations.

Yet another 'helpful' guide:

 

[neilyboy]

Before I go any further, I just want to point out, it’s not sweat, it’s pure Scottish talent seeping out our pores…..


Anyway… An EIC is required, but there is a box for “ scope of works” where you fill in it’s just a CU change.
Your EIC should be kept with the EICR to prove the work has been done.

What C1 faults are there? They should be priority for rectifying.

Yes, smoke detectors themselves don’t come under BS7671, just the mains wiring to them, but there are new scottish legislation that they may be bringing to your attention. You didn’t say there was any code against the smoke detectors.I

The C1 faults are that there are blanks missing from the front of the CU and when he unscrewed the cover one of the fixing lugs snapped (wylex plastic unit about 10 years old )

The smoke detectors are hard wired and probably don't conform to the latest scottish legislation ie interlinked but as I said previously its serviced accommodation and I'm almost certain that each apartment has its own sounder in it so wouldn't fall under the regs which are for domestic properties

 

[neilyboy]

And to the building regulations of course.

Many forget this, for example in Scotland you cannot have a surface switch within a bath/shower/toilet room, the light switch must be outside, or a pull cord.

Not due to the wiring regs, but because of Scottish building regulations.

Yet another 'helpful' guide:

further to this thread another of the consumer units requires a new RCD so what certification would this need ? EIC ,MWC ?
the board already has an EICR on it which has flagged the faulty RCD.
The guidance on the ScotsGov site isn't very clear on this issue

 

[Julie.]

further to this thread another of the consumer units requires a new RCD so what certification would this need ? EIC ,MWC ?
the board already has an EICR on it which has flagged the faulty RCD.
The guidance on the ScotsGov site isn't very clear on this issue

Like for like doesn't really need anything, but if it's in response to an EICR then it would be helpful to do a MWC , so the customer has documentation showing the issues have been addressed, and the test results.

 

[pirate]

Very interesting, this thread. I was not aware of need for a warrant for a new socket in a flat. I can see the logic if it's on a shared wall, but not an internal wall.
many thanks to @pc1966 for using the word "parse"...made my day!

 

[littlespark]

“parse”???

Is that todays Wordle answer?

 

[littlespark]

There’s many differences between Scottish and English rules… so be aware what people tell you.

Ignore anything to do with “part p” That’s England only.

For a consumer unit change, there should be an EIC to cover it though.