PIR code for no RCD

[bil7288]

Hello All
Could some one please tell what code i should use for a PIR on a commercial premises, bakers shop, where there is no RCD

Thanks

 

[telectrix]

grey area. i would code 2 that as "requires improvement". some would just code 4, as non compliance

 

[andekoch]

i am tending to go code 2 for all non rcd installations now, especially as the 'new' pir forms only give 3 options when they eventually come into use.

 

[bil7288]

Yeah that's the problem I've got some people I've spoken to say code 2 and some have said code 4 not meeting current req's. Just hoping for some clarity

 

[telectrix]

if you code 2 it, you're on the safe side. suppose you gave it a code 4 and somebody ( maybe through their own stupidity) got electrocuted/injured, they could come back on you saying you've passed it as only non compliant. if you've given it a code 2, then the onus is on the owner of the installation to rectify it. as i always say CYA ( cover your arse). I have just done a PIR on a domestic and put a code 2 on a cooker point above the hob. apparently the hob was moved at an earlier date so as to be below the existing point. if the cooker point now gets fried, onus is passed to client.

 

[bil7288]

Thanks for that advice I'll put it down as a code2, at least then I'll be covered.

 

[Sintra]

Personally i would code 4 if it is for general sockets for indoor use. Code 2 if the sockets could be used for portable equipment outdoors.

 

[Guest123]

Impossible to say as you havn't stated earthing system, what circuits you're referring to and why you feel the additional protection is needed....buried cables etc.

 

[nickblake]

Personally i would code 4 if it is for general sockets for indoor use. Code 2 if the sockets could be used for portable equipment outdoors.

for the first time ever and im sad im going to have to disagree with you my friend , Every socket could potentially be used outside , ive seen people with these little electric heat guns stripping paint off their fasia's using an extension from a first floor bedroom so i would code 2 it ............ pillock did set fire to his roof doing it too lol

 

[BluSparx]

I would code as a Code 2 and give your reason to the customer, I use the ESC leaflet on RCD Safety that explains why - really good tool and also good for business generatino (i.e. installation of RCD)

 

[IQ Electrical]

I would code as a Code 2 and give your reason to the customer, I use the ESC leaflet on RCD Safety that explains why - really good tool and also good for business generatino (i.e. installation of RCD)

The document on PIR codes from the same ESC as you quote above would probably (given the lack of information on locations and earth systems) advocate a code 4 for this 'defect'.

http://www.esc.org.uk/pdfs/business-and-community/electrical-industry/BPG4_08.pdf

 

[telectrix]

i see sintra's point and also nick's . afraid i have to go with nick onnthis one. look at the worst scenario. electricity is the tool of wise men and the potential cause of death to numpties.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Code 4. You are assessing the installation to current standards. BS7671 is not retrospective. Therefore if the installation did not require RCD protection at the time of design and installation it doesn't need it now. Code 4 is for items not meeting BS7671 2008, it is not a defect.

Cheers.........Howard

 

[Deleted member 9648]

As above.....you cant condemn all installs prior to 2008 as unsafe.....

Lack of any RCD to a TT system ....code 1
lack of RCD to socket which may reasonably be expected to supply equipment outdoors...code 2
lack of RCD to socket not liable to supply equipment outdoors....code 4
lack of RCD to bathrooms and installs with buried cables prior to 2008 ...code 4

 

[pushrod]

Taking a completely different point of view as it is a commercial bakery or just a shop (?) and not domestic premises it might be the case that the staff are under the direction of a skilled person and an rcd is not needed (depending on cable routes?). You certainly wouldn't be expecting employers to be plugging their hedgetrimmer into a socket on their break or nailing up some paintings on the wall. Might be worth a further chat with the owner.

For what it is worth, my gut feeling would put me in the code 4 camp.

 

[Des 56]

How did we manage before this all important rcd world ?

I would make a decision on the installations need ,the current requirements and a code suited to the outcome, taking the installation age into account, when making that code
I cant see how any code can be given with the limited information

 

[bil7288]

Hello just to update,

It is a shop that contains ovens used for baking, the original system was installed approx 15 years ago,no records or signs of previous PIR.
The cables are installed in false ceiling or false wall. My main concern is that there are sockets in the shop front, public side,that are used for fridge display unit.

Sorry forgot to add its a tn-c-s system

 

[Paul.M]

The new edition of gn3 states" that installations conforming to earlier editions and not complying with the current edition do not necessarily fail to achieve conformity with the EAWR89. - if numbers 2 or 3 are allocated, the person carrying out the test will have to use judgement to determine whether or not the installation can be classed as satisfactory". So your all correct! My opinion, sockets in any public area should be rcd protected, you never know what Joe public will do next. So its a code 2, Erm I mean 4. No I don't I mean 2 I think. No, I've settled on code 4. Give the owner a quote to change over these sockets to rcd ones, you've got a bit more work, public is safe, job done.