radial

[GLENNSPARK]

ive read the OPD wrong, thought it was SEPERATE radials for lighting and power? There's nothing wrong with radials in houses, especially flats where two radials used on a split RCD board can mean that a fault will only take one side of sockets out.

and...so it should be...
for the reasons i gave earlier...

 

[Engineer54]

You only have to look at any of the Yank wiring videos on utube to see the standards they work too!! Never seen a neat and tidy cabling arrangement into the over-sized DB's or even within the DB!!
The testing liability to an installation is almost Zero in the States. You'll not see many electricians in the States with ELI, RCD tester etc, in fact lucky if they own an IR tester, ...needless to say MFT testers don't sell too well across the pond!! lol!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

You only have to look at any of the Yank wiring videos on utube to see the standards they work too!! Never seen a neat and tidy cabling arrangement into the over-sized DB's or even within the DB!!
The testing liability to an installation is almost Zero in the States. You'll not see many electricians in the States with ELI, RCD tester etc, in fact lucky if they own an IR tester, ...needless to say MFT testers don't sell too well across the pond!! lol!!

from what recall they use this king of thing:

and yes...no mention of IR testing here...lolffs..
i guess they use the `bang test`..lol...or just pray the GFCI holds...lol...lol...

 

[Engineer54]

ive read the OPD wrong, thought it was SEPERATE radials for lighting and power? There's nothing wrong with radials in houses, especially flats where two radials used on a split RCD board can mean that a fault will only take one side of sockets out.

The OP isn't using multi branch circuits!! lol!!

What the OP is stating, (from his description) is the use of 2 single lighting circuits to serve both upstairs and downstairs rooms on one circuit, same with the radial socket circuits. Not as we would do, a separate lighting/power circuits for downstairs and a lighting/power circuits for upstairs.

 

[Engineer54]

from what recall they use this king of thing:

View attachment 18201and yes...no mention of IR testing here...lolffs..
i guess they use the `bang test`..lol...or just pray the GFCI holds...lol...lol...

Those things are actually quite good, and provide a multitude of tests including GFI testing. Only problem is, very few electricians own one!! lol!!

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Those things are actually quite good, and provide a multitude of tests including GFI testing. Only problem is, very few electricians own one!! lol!!

well...i`v got MFTs/seperates, multimeters, leakage & current clamps, voltage indicators etc coming out of my ears...lol...
nah...i dont think i`d want one of them eng...lol..
i`v got more than enough to cover what that thing is capable of doing...

 

[chilliwilly]

I pity the electrician that comes in after you, tracing out lighting circuits and socket circuits running up and downstairs rooms. Never heard of anything so bloody stupid. You must have picked up that little Gem of a system in the States.

It's a good job that our domestics are mostly single phase, or you'll be using the Yank multi branch circuit for lighting and sockets too!! ....lol!!

Mmm, an interesting reply, i'll bet your one of these loud mouths that never shuts up about your self importance and how good you think you are when your at work, in the wholesalers, in the pub, and maybe when you're on the other job. Lol!!!

In your comment about another sparky following me with regards to a fault and having to run up and down stairs?there are still homes in the UK that still have one ring serving every outlet in the home on more than one floor. A 30/32 amp ring main, probably the most dangerous circuit that exist in the world, but yet you laugh at the Yank system?

The niccy never had a problem with my choice of selection for circuit design, in fact they were impressed that I had managed to implement a wiring system without departing from bs 7671, and at the same time improve reliabilty without putting a whole floor in darkness, in the event of a nuisance trip from a split board. And also remain competetive, the main reason why I do domestic. Most of all, they didn't think I was bloody stupid as you put it.

And yes, I would include lights and power on the same circuit if the terminals were large enough in the light switches to take 2 or more 2.5.mm conductors, and the contacts were sufficiently rated along with the lighting accessories. Without using a fuse spur. I can't see how that would constitute a departure.

 

[markc123]

Mmm, an interesting reply, i'll bet your one of these loud mouths that never shuts up about your self importance and how good you think you are when your at work, in the wholesalers, in the pub, and maybe when you're on the other job. Lol!!!

In your comment about another sparky following me with regards to a fault and having to run up and down stairs?there are still homes in the UK that still have one ring serving every outlet in the home on more than one floor. A 30/32 amp ring main, probably the most dangerous circuit that exist in the world, but yet you laugh at the Yank system?

The niccy never had a problem with my choice of selection for circuit design, in fact they were impressed that I had managed to implement a wiring system without departing from bs 7671, and at the same time improve reliabilty without putting a whole floor in darkness, in the event of a nuisance trip from a split board. And also remain competetive, the main reason why I do domestic. Most of all, they didn't think I was bloody stupid as you put it.

And yes, I would include lights and power on the same circuit if the terminals were large enough in the light switches to take 2 or more 2.5.mm conductors, and the contacts were sufficiently rated along with the lighting accessories. Without using a fuse spur. I can't see how that would constitute a departure.

Seriouslly why?

What is the actual point. Trying to make yourself look better than the 'average' spark are we. As E54 said, i pity the spark that goes into a gaff after you.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Mmm, an interesting reply, i'll bet your one of these loud mouths that never shuts up about your self importance and how good you think you are when your at work, in the wholesalers, in the pub, and maybe when you're on the other job. Lol!!!

In your comment about another sparky following me with regards to a fault and having to run up and down stairs?there are still homes in the UK that still have one ring serving every outlet in the home on more than one floor. A 30/32 amp ring main, probably the most dangerous circuit that exist in the world, but yet you laugh at the Yank system?

The niccy never had a problem with my choice of selection for circuit design, in fact they were impressed that I had managed to implement a wiring system without departing from bs 7671, and at the same time improve reliabilty without putting a whole floor in darkness, in the event of a nuisance trip from a split board. And also remain competetive, the main reason why I do domestic. Most of all, they didn't think I was bloody stupid as you put it.

And yes, I would include lights and power on the same circuit if the terminals were large enough in the light switches to take 2 or more 2.5.mm conductors, and the contacts were sufficiently rated along with the lighting accessories. Without using a fuse spur. I can't see how that would constitute a departure.

well i know i wouldn`t..lol..
so, if you lose the supply to the circuit...not only have you lost the outlets...but you wont have any lighting either....unsafe situation wouldn`t you think...especially near/on stairways...

and while were at it..
whats this?
so you would use..lets say a 20A OPD at origin...then no doubt 1.5/1.0 for your lighting...with no fusing down...on a 20A OPD?...
your having a jest arn`t you...
go away...lol....

 

[SimpleSimon]

I have to say, Im suprised the NICEIC would allow the installation of lights and power on one circuit as Glenn rightly says you'd loose both at once which goes against seperation of circuits in the regs. If we going to adapt that rule we might as well do.away with split load RCD boards.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I have to say, Im suprised the NICEIC would allow the installation of lights and power on one circuit as Glenn rightly says you'd loose both at once which goes against seperation of circuits in the regs. If we going to adapt that rule we might as well do.away with split load RCD boards.
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

look simon...the man`s talking out of his ring if he thinks its ok to start putting lighting and power on one circuit...lol
for a start he`s limiting himself to 3% VD..secondly he`s limiting the circuit to either a 10A or 16A OPD and thirdly its not seperation of circuits is it...lol...
what a benny...lol...

 

[Guest55]

from what recall they use this king of thing:

View attachment 18201

thats an interesting looking piece of kit glenn , what make / type is it ?
i get all geeky over testgear lol.

 

[chilliwilly]

look simon...the man`s talking out of his ring if he thinks its ok to start putting lighting and power on one circuit...lol
for a start he`s limiting himself to 3% VD..secondly he`s limiting the circuit to either a 10A or 16A OPD and thirdly its not seperation of circuits is it...lol...
what a benny...lol...

I didn.t say the niccy approved lights on the same circuit as power, I said they didn't have a problem with hopscotching radials fed from both sides of a split board that serve both floors in all rooms of a house. It vastly improves reliability of the UK wiring system that stipulates the over use of RCDs that introduce unrelliability to lights and power, especially in the case of household.

But I did say that if light switches had sufficient current rating along with lighting accessories, I would consider the "Yank" wiring system as you put it, still allowing for 2 or more circuits in any room or stairs in a home. That would in turn be more reliable than a single lighting circuit serving a floor, or a stairs liable to nuisance trips from RCDs.

And why would I be limited to only 10amp OPD (?) or 16 amp OPD (?) ? Does a 13amp socket outlet limit you to a 10 amp ring or radial? And since when were volt drop a problem in the average home?

And since when did a lighting circuit and a power circuit of the same band or category need to be seperated?

Its you who is the benny and wears a toilet seat around your neck and makes folk think that someone has broke wind when you speak.

You really should read carefully and correctly interperet what is written before you, just like reading the wiring regulations. The way you have read and interpreted my quote, is typical of a one week wonder domestic installer!

And you are correct when you say that you wouldn't follow me, my customers old and new would more than likely see you for what you are!

A snidy loudmouth that talks a good job but struggles to do one.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I didn.t say the niccy approved lights on the same circuit as power, I said they didn't have a problem with hopscotching radials fed from both sides of a split board that serve both floors in all rooms of a house. It vastly improves reliability of the UK wiring system that stipulates the over use of RCDs that introduce unrelliability to lights and power, especially in the case of household.

But I did say that if light switches had sufficient current rating along with lighting accessories, I would consider the "Yank" wiring system as you put it, still allowing for 2 or more circuits in any room or stairs in a home. That would in turn be more reliable than a single lighting circuit serving a floor, or a stairs liable to nuisance trips from RCDs.

And why would I be limited to only 10amp OPD (?) or 16 amp OPD (?) ? Does a 13amp socket outlet limit you to a 10 amp ring or radial? And since when were volt drop a problem in the average home?

And since when did a lighting circuit and a power circuit of the same band or category need to be seperated?

Its you who is the benny and wears a toilet seat around your neck and makes folk think that someone has broke wind when you speak.

You really should read carefully and correctly interperet what is written before you, just like reading the wiring regulations. The way you have read and interpreted my quote, is typical of a one week wonder domestic installer!

And you are correct when you say that you wouldn't follow me, my customers old and new would more than likely see you for what you are!

A snidy loudmouth that talks a good job but struggles to do one.

oh....you havn`t met me before then....lol..

 

[trev]

oh....you havn`t met me before then....lol..

Glenn you should make that your new signature. Just for a giggle of course mate

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Glenn you should make that your new signature mate. Just for a giggle of course mate

yeah...its just this guy is trying to backtrack now on what he`s said..lol..

 

[Norwich]

I do love this forum if you want a good row here it is,

 

[SimpleSimon]

And since when did a lighting circuit and a power circuit of the same band or category need to be seperated? .

I havent got my book on me but i know it doesnt directly state "lighting and power" but it does make mention of seperating circuits where possible for ease of safety and convience or something on those lines.

Believe its close to the back of section 1.


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[Norwich]

I agree with both comments arrange circuits to minimise inconvenience in the event of a fault yes. Bit that in no way precludes combined lighting and power circuits as common in the rest of the world

 

[GLENNSPARK]

I didn.t say the niccy approved lights on the same circuit as power, I said they didn't have a problem with hopscotching radials fed from both sides of a split board that serve both floors in all rooms of a house. It vastly improves reliability of the UK wiring system that stipulates the over use of RCDs that introduce unrelliability to lights and power, especially in the case of household.

But I did say that if light switches had sufficient current rating along with lighting accessories, I would consider the "Yank" wiring system as you put it, still allowing for 2 or more circuits in any room or stairs in a home. That would in turn be more reliable than a single lighting circuit serving a floor, or a stairs liable to nuisance trips from RCDs.

And why would I be limited to only 10amp OPD (?) or 16 amp OPD (?) ? Does a 13amp socket outlet limit you to a 10 amp ring or radial? And since when were volt drop a problem in the average home?

And since when did a lighting circuit and a power circuit of the same band or category need to be seperated?

Its you who is the benny and wears a toilet seat around your neck and makes folk think that someone has broke wind when you speak.

You really should read carefully and correctly interperet what is written before you, just like reading the wiring regulations. The way you have read and interpreted my quote, is typical of a one week wonder domestic installer!

And you are correct when you say that you wouldn't follow me, my customers old and new would more than likely see you for what you are!

A snidy loudmouth that talks a good job but struggles to do one.

eh?...
you were on about not using fusing down for the lighting portion of the circuit you were combining with power circuit...