running a house from car batteries for the electrical idiot

[ruston]

Car batteries are not ideal for deep cycling and leisure batteries would be a better choice.
Nearly all car batteries are sealed these days, and not all are lead acid.
The concerns are justified ,and the OP has already realized that things go wrong ,and has come here for advice and comments.
I fully expect that she will take it in and get a competent person to design her project.

 

[pirate]

Maybe she will even revert to us and tell us what she has done...

 

[PEG]

Why can't the OP just use mains electric,and just do what the French do,when something fails,and they are not happy with it...block the roads and have a picnic

 

[ellie]

there is a very good chance my fingers were not clean. lol. also i had been holding it in my hand whilst i was searching for a bit of wire

 

[ellie]

thank you.
i shall have a look at the link immediately.

 

[ellie]

And if you are in a sunny part of France , solar panels may be a consideration to keep your batteries topped up.
You could even create a battery bank and run some power sockets via an inverter.
To my mind that is when solar power comes into it's own.

i agree. i use solar panels for my battery powered electric fencing. they work so well i rarely have to top them up from mains power

 

[ellie]

A generator might be a better idea, with changeover switch and appliance inlet, although may be different rules for this in France.

ha ha! just bought one! noisy bugger but after rigging up a longer exhaust pipe from an old metal rake handle and jubilee clip then placing it on a folded up tractor inner tube it runs much more quietly

 

[ellie]

Agreed, 123, however if for ocasional use maybe the generator and dedicated circuit/changeover switch might be on the expensive side? Plus you need to store fuel for the genny, and put up with the noise and the other inconvenience...some generators can be difficult beggars to start...and have to be housed somewhere.

Ruston, I do like your view on this, but again the initial expense might not be justified...it's up to the OP to rule on that point.

managed to find a genny for 150 euros. the 2400w is sufficient to run most of the house. i have managed to solve the noise issue but i still prefer the battery idea for now. especially with solar panels.

 

[ellie]

On the cost front, these were about £200 for the set, ifrc

4 x S124 Clamp Spots, 5W LED Lamps & Battery KIT - Display Lighting Ltd - https://www.display-lighting.com/led-battery-powered-lighting/s124-battery-led-clamp-spots/dkit4xs124-300-dc.html

and can be clamped to tables, shelves screens etc.
We got at least 10 hours running from the golf trolley battery, which is a standard, non-lithium 22ah 12 volt thingy, which cost less than £50
Lucas 22Ah Golf Battery LSLC22-12G - Lucas Golf Batteries - https://www.tayna.co.uk/golf-batteries/lucas/lslc22-12g/
and is half the price of the Motocaddy branded equivalent that for me lasts only one season. I don't mind paying £50/year, but twice that is just silly...especially as my golf is rubbish!
Going off-topic here, sorry...

thank you for the links. i have lots of old batteries that although are now no good to run a car still have enough ooomph left to power electric fencing. i was kind of hoping if they could power that they could manage a laptop and some lights. ever the optimist. lol however, i do like the idea of LED lamps

 

[ellie]

Electrical, Idiots, mmmm do they really go together well??? Risk of fire jumps to mind.

hahahaha. you are not wrong. luckily, i am not really an idiot. although, i have been known to do idiotic things occasionally. i promise to take care.

 

[ellie]

No, if you know your 12v electrics, there is zero fire risk if, and only if, you do your homework, so on this occasion I beg to differ Vortigern.
I was born and bred on these 12v things, and 24v too, and there is no way you can cause death by stupidity unless you add total ignorance too!
It is a different world, and it has it's detractors, but the fact remains...some install sub-stations, some do mini-electrics, but each has its idiosyncracies, and each its specialists!
So..."electricals/idiots"? well probably not...but I bow to your experience...

phew! momentary panic over. lol.

 

[ellie]

No, if you know your 12v electrics, there is zero fire risk if, and only if, you do your homework, so on this occasion I beg to differ Vortigern.
I was born and bred on these 12v things, and 24v too, and there is no way you can cause death by stupidity unless you add total ignorance too!
It is a different world, and it has it's detractors, but the fact remains...some install sub-stations, some do mini-electrics, but each has its idiosyncracies, and each its specialists!
So..."electricals/idiots"? well probably not...but I bow to your experience...

phew! momentary panic over. lol.

No, can't say I have lol. Seen a few go up though.
I don't think the OP will be commissioning this herself though. I think she is just looking for views.

um... i will be doing it myself. i did all my house wiring, plumbing, windows, flooring (tiled and wooden) myself. as well as digging a soak-away cesspit, digging a swimming pool and many other things. with each job i took on i had no idea of what i was doing so i asked everyone i knew and many i did not for their advice. the first time i plumbed in the bathroom (i changed my mind 3 times on which room i wanted it in) i had my phone clamped to my ear with my dad on the other end talking me through what to do. ok, so i am crap at soldering joints to i bought compression joints instead. et voila! a higgedly-piggedly, oddly routed water system that works and does not leak. lol luckily i have lots of time and am not too bothered if i make mistakes. as long as they don't kill me. OH! i did nearly die once. i sawed through a 3-phase cable that was supposed to have been disconnected years before i bought the house. my saw now has 3 inches of teeth missing. and i lost a potentially free source of electricity. i am so glad i had wellies on and gardening gloves

 

[ellie]

Have you ever tried putting a spanner over the terminals of a car battery? But yes on the surface of it what could possibly go wrong. Oh and by the way I would not recommend bowing to my experience, like anyone else here there are always things to learn from each other.

no. but now i am ... brb

 

[Marvo]

I still have a very basic back-up system at home, it's something I installed a few years ago when we were have power outages of 3-4 hour duration on alternate days.

Firstly forget halogen lighting of any kind, they're a fire hazard, they're fillament so they're unreliable and they're extremely innefficient. Use LED lights.

Secondly forget car batteries or any normal lead acid batteries, they're not designed to be discharged by more than 20%, discharging them more than that destroys them in no time (<a month) You have to use deep cycle lead acid batteries, yes they're more expensive but they should last years rather than days.

Because we were getting the power back on every day solar wasn't worth the extra expense. The cheapest route for me was a small, cheap 5kVA inverter that was plugged into the normal supply and 4x lead acid 110Ah deep cycle batteries to provide back-up power. .

The inverter ran all the important items in the house such as 3x PC's, 1x server, ADSL router, cordless telephones, TV, satelite decoder, Hi-Fi system, as well as occasional use of microwave, kettle and coffee machine. On batteries it would run for around 5 hours with everything on and about 7 hours if I shut things down when I wasn't using them.

I also installed some 12vDC LED lighting around the house, it was mostly cheap 10 watt floodlights and some adhesive tape type lights. Obviously the lights ran directly off the batteries, not from the inverter.

 

[ellie]

BTW, we always tested the calor cylinder to regulator joint with a match!
Oh, happy days!
DO NOT DO THIS FOLKS!
(It's fine actually, as long as you ventilate the area properly...
50 years on and I'm still here...and the copper junctions just had an olive and a smear of calor-tite and that was that...of course we ran a risk assessment every time we changed a cylinder!)

a friend of mine who used to work for the gas board told me that is exactly what he used to do. i was horrified and wondering if he was pulling my leg all at the same time.

 

[Marvo]

As mentioned it is worth putting a main fuse at the batteries and it's also worth fusing any 12vdc circuits you run. Without fuses the risk of fire is very high.

I'll add a few photos of my setup but I'll warn you in advance it isn't going to win any awards...

 

[ellie]

Maybe she will even revert to us and tell us what she has done...

she will. and probably add a few photos too. I have thoroughly enjoyed reading all the posts this evening and have learned a lot in an interesting way.

 

[ellie]

Why can't the OP just use mains electric,and just do what the French do,when something fails,and they are not happy with it...block the roads and have a picnic

i have mains electric. for the most part. but power cuts are a fairly regular occurrence. especially in the winter when the wind blows trees down. more than happy to have a picnic though.

 

[ellie]

I still have a very basic back-up system at home, it's something I installed a few years ago when we were have power outages of 3-4 hour duration on alternate days.

Firstly forget halogen lighting of any kind, they're a fire hazard, they're fillament so they're unreliable and they're extremely innefficient. Use LED lights.

Secondly forget car batteries or any normal lead acid batteries, they're not designed to be discharged by more than 20%, discharging them more than that destroys them in no time (<a month) You have to use deep cycle lead acid batteries, yes they're more expensive but they should last years rather than days.

Because we were getting the power back on every day solar wasn't worth the extra expense. The cheapest route for me was a small, cheap 5kVA inverter that was plugged into the normal supply and 4x lead acid 110Ah deep cycle batteries to provide back-up power. .

The inverter ran all the important items in the house such as 3x PC's, 1x server, ADSL router, cordless telephones, TV, satelite decoder, Hi-Fi system, as well as occasional use of microwave, kettle and coffee machine. On batteries it would run for around 5 hours with everything on and about 7 hours if I shut things down when I wasn't using them.

I also installed some 12vDC LED lighting around the house, it was mostly cheap 10 watt floodlights and some adhesive tape type lights. Obviously the lights ran directly off the batteries, not from the inverter.

thank you. i like this idea. do you have any advice about selecting an inverter please? or do i just chose one inside my price range?

 

[ellie]

thank you to everyone who took the time to reply to my question. i have found all your replies to be most informative. i am so glad i found this forum. i hope you do not mind me popping in again when i have more questions. and i will.