Smoke alarms - Complete rewire - Cannot find any regulations/law

[uxb443]

I have just completed a complete rewire on an average 1960's 3 bed semi.

Inspector chap has just been round and said to get signed off I need to install 2 smoke alarms and one heat alarm in the kitchen, because there is no door, and they all need to be interlinked.

He couldn't quote me the appropriate regulation or law and I wasn't going to press the point as some people make bad enemies!

I have spent an hour trawling through 17th regs, OSG, Part P, and Part B. I cannot find any reference that says you HAVE to do it.

- Customer is more than happy with two new battery powered smoke alarms.
- There were NO smoke alarms at all when I started.
- There is no other building work being done. Just the rewire.
- I know what the inspector says is best practice.
- It's not a massive amount of work.
- The customer just does not want the expense!
- It is usually best to KNOW what the requirements are!

Can someone please tell me:
A) Does such a regulation/law exist?
B) What is the reference number/page number/document reference/title?

 

[davesparks]

What was he an inspector of?

 

[trev]

The rule used to be in Part Pesh, "All new and refurbished properties are to have mains powered smoke alarms"
Something like that anyway.
Every time I've prepped quotes for rewires I've just included them anyway and said nothing to the customer. You have the floorboards up anyway and the labourer/apprentice (if you have one) is going in the loft already so it's not that much extra work to install them at the time.

 

[KAS1]

Is this pat P lol

 

[Silly Sausage]

Call the local Fire Brigade, they'll come and stick some freebies up for you.

 

[telectrix]

is he a bus inspector... blakey?

 

[Silly Sausage]

I'm getting the hots for Olive now!

 

[telectrix]

ewwww...

 

[gutterball]

i think you will find it's a building reg not a electrical reg. i cannot remember the exact wording but it's something like every normally habitable space. kitchen hallway/landing and living room.

 

[uxb443]

I've had a look in Part B again and yep it clearly states 'New and Refurbished' properties. (Thanks Trev).

Rewiring is definitely not refurbishment.

So, at the moment, it looks like there is no legal requirement or regulation.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Unfortunately the BC officer is god in this situation. I would stop worrying and as Trev says, just bung em in.

11.50 each for two aico ionising mains alarms, a few metres of 3 core and earth, and an hour or two.

taking the inspector on will end in the same result as suggested above

 

[gutterball]

found it this is scottish regs but yours will be similar.
[FONT=&quot]Therefore, in order to provide a fire detection and fire alarm system that should[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]alert occupants to the outbreak of fire a Grade D system should be installed in all[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]dwellings, comprising of:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]• at least 1 smoke alarm installed in the principal habitable room[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]• at least 1 smoke alarm in every circulation space such as hallways and landings[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]and[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]• at least one heat alarm installed in every kitchen.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]A principal habitable room is a frequently used room by the occupants of a[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]dwelling for general daytime living purposes.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Every inner room [/FONT][FONT=&quot]and adjoining access room should be provided with an[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]additional smoke alarm to give the occupants early warning. Where the access[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]room is a kitchen, the type of detector should be carefully considered to reduce the[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]likelihood of false alarms.[/FONT]

 

[uxb443]

Thanks SPARTYKUS. I'm going to as you advise. Makes good sense.

 

[trev]

Rewiring is definitely not refurbishment.

That's the second time you'll be wrong today then
A rewire is classed as a refurb mate. Best advice is don't get into a willy measuring contest with the building inspector, A You'll lose B He'll remember it and next time your paths cross he will jump all over you.
Shove the smokes in, smile sweetly, thank him for his time and move on.

 

[Silly Sausage]

to gutter...

Slightly over the top.
Once interlinked alarms go off, you know about it!

Had a fireman knocking on me door once asking if we was alright.

 

[telectrix]

hello, popeye.

 

[gutterball]

Slightly over the top.
Once interlinked alarms go off, you know about it!

it used to be hall and landing now their insisting on living and kitchen, won't be long and it will be like hmo one in every room.
last year they wanted me to put one in the hall cupboard of a rental because there was a fridge freezer in it.

 

[jaypp]

it used to be hall and landing now their insisting on living and kitchen, won't be long and it will be like hmo one in every room.
last year they wanted me to put one in the hall cupboard of a rental because there was a fridge freezer in it.

Was it a Beko?!!!

Smokes save lives and a mains interlinked with battery backup is far better than individual battery units. Agree with advice re B.C.

 

[wozz]

That's the second time you'll be wrong today then
A rewire is classed as a refurb mate.

Is this written in black and white anywhere?

 

[davesparks]

I'll ask again, what was he an inspector of?

 

[davesparks]

Unfortunately the BC officer is god in this situation. I would stop worrying and as Trev says, just bung em in.

11.50 each for two aico ionising mains alarms, a few metres of 3 core and earth, and an hour or two.

taking the inspector on will end in the same result as suggested above

Should that not be 1 ionisation and 1 optical alarm?

 

[trev]

Is this written in black and white anywhere?

Considering the subject matter of part p it's not exactly a huge leap of faith to work out what a refurbishment of a domestic installation would constitute is it?

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Should that not be 1 ionisation and 1 optical alarm?

Actually two opticals in hallways, ions in bedrooms/ lounges. But better than nowt!

 

[ipf]

hello, popeye.

Beat me to it, Bluto.

 

[Guest77]

If the rewire is finished and all floors down etc then use aico relay base smokes, you can just add the 2 smokes and heat near lights with feeds in and feed them that way, then code the bases so they interlink via a radio frequency, okay they are around 40 quid each instead of the 12 they would cost if normal mains detectors purchaed but no wiring between detectors and 3 hours work max to fit the lot and no mess or making good.


Mike

 

[tazz]

Building document B & fire safety 2000 covers installation of fire detection within dwellings.
This only requests, new builds or alterations, such as extentions, and loft conversions. As the alterations would be covered by building control, detection would be compulsory. As to the building in question, the op has not altered the construction of the building, only rewired it. Therefore detection can only be recommended from a safety point of view. Therefore the only person to make this decision, is the person who owns the property.

 

[Octopus]

I have just completed a complete rewire on an average 1960's 3 bed semi.

Inspector chap has just been round and said to get signed off I need to install 2 smoke alarms and one heat alarm in the kitchen, because there is no door, and they all need to be interlinked.

He couldn't quote me the appropriate regulation or law and I wasn't going to press the point as some people make bad enemies!

I have spent an hour trawling through 17th regs, OSG, Part P, and Part B. I cannot find any reference that says you HAVE to do it.

- Customer is more than happy with two new battery powered smoke alarms.
- There were NO smoke alarms at all when I started.
- There is no other building work being done. Just the rewire.
- I know what the inspector says is best practice.
- It's not a massive amount of work.
- The customer just does not want the expense!
- It is usually best to KNOW what the requirements are!

Can someone please tell me:
A) Does such a regulation/law exist?
B) What is the reference number/page number/document reference/title?

C) What the local building inspector asks for he gets.

If the inspector is involved because of "material" alterations to the fabric of the building they WILL want smokes added before they will issue a completion notice.

Learn and move on!

 

[tazz]

Murdoch....from what can tell this is just a scam inspector, not building control.

 

[Octopus]

Murdoch....from what can tell this is just a scam inspector, not building control.

OK but its a rewire and as the OP hasn't actually confirmed who the inspector was and whether other works are being done, we as usual, are pxssing in the wind.

EDIT: If he's not a scam member and has paid LABC then the inspector may well apply "local" rules and insist on the smokes.

 

[tazz]

True..reading between the lines, most building control inspectors are pretty clued up, and present all documentation and regs in writing along with layout drawings....the op sounds like he been given nothing...hence my conclusion it just a scam inspection.

 

[Octopus]

Interestingly I'm working on a refurb at the moment of a bungalow. BC are involved due the material changes to the structure.

BC man insisted on fan in cloakroom (no window) but didn't specify smokes were necessary! I persuaded the client to include them!

Woking BC are normally shxt hot on smokes being fitted - so maybe a bungalow has different rules??

 

[tazz]

Its still a dwelling, if any area has been opened up from the circulation area, extension etc, bc will go down the smoke route, if no new rooms, then they leave it down to owner....to be honest I think bc play a fair game

 

[uxb443]

Thanks for the posts. I appreciate the varying points of view.

Whatever the law is or isn't the general opinion looks like just do as LABC requires.

I was going to anyway but it doesn't hurt to air stuff here.

Thanks again. Your help is appreciated.

 

[Octopus]

Thanks for the posts. I appreciate the varying points of view.

Whatever the law is or isn't the general opinion looks like just do as LABC requires.

I was going to anyway but it doesn't hurt to air stuff here.

Thanks again. Your help is appreciated.

So who was the inspector?

 

[uxb443]

Local registered tradesman who checks my work out as I am just starting out and haven't got myself registered yet. That's the next hoop to jump through.

Qualified. Increasing my experience all the time. All the work gets checked and signed off.

 

[Octopus]

Local registered tradesman who checks my work out as I am just starting out and haven't got myself registered yet. That's the next hoop to jump through.

Qualified. Increasing my experience all the time. All the work gets checked and signed off.

So a nobody then who doesn't know the rules. Get yourself a decent mentor

 

[tazz]

I knew that was coming....ohhh I`m getting old...lol

 

[Fin170]

If I have sufficent floor boards up I offer to put them in just for the cost of the materials, never done a rewire without them!

 

[uksparks]

Hang fire, why have building control been notified of the rewire and coming out to check it? Am I missing something here... Presumably there's other building work going on?

 

[uksparks]

I always fit smokes, I build it into the price and tell them you either have it or find someone else.

Funnily enough I've got 4 optical and one heat to install next week for someone, all wireless aico.