water and gas

[Farmelectrics]

need to upgrade earthing in a family members house laminated floor all over house my question is can i take a 10mm earth to the gas and the continue to the water the earth cable will remain unbroken at the gas clamp, im sure you can do this but no books with me

 

[Leesparkykent]

need to upgrade earthing in a family members house laminated floor all over house my question is can i take a 10mm earth to the gas and the continue to the water the earth cable will remain unbroken at the gas clamp, im sure you can do this but no books with me

Of course you can.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

I didnt think you could... I am reading that you can go from MAIN Bonding to Extraneous-conductive parts
but from Main Bonding to Main Bonding, i did think it liked a direct link for Water/Gas intake

Ill read more tho

From GN8
"However, it is permitted to connect them collectively or in groups were the main protective bonding conductor is looped from one extraneous-conductive-part to another. Where bonding is undertaken in this way, the bonding conductor should remain unbroken at intermediate points, as shown in Figure 5.5, thus maintaining conitinuity to other extraneous-conductive-arts should one be disconnected for whatever reason."

5.5 shows bolted link to another lot of earths and then on to "an unbroken main protective bonding conductor" showing the loop.

I did think that MAIN Bonding needed to be Direct to the incoming, for Gas/Water to make sure it was linked.

 

[Farmelectrics]

was a bit un sure my self hence the question im sure ive read or seen a picture saying you can

 

[Hellmooth]

Lee is the regs book/onsite guide, the next edition is going to be called the Lee edition and it's going to be gold in colour :yes:

 

[Midwest]

Looking in niceic 'Snags & Solutions' earthing & bonding, Snag 43; Main protective bonding conductors should, ideally, not be looped from service to service. If this is not practicable, the main protective bonding conductor should not be cut at looped connections', they quote reg. 528.3.3.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Lee is the regs book/onsite guide, the next edition is going to be called the Lee edition and it's going to be gold in colour :yes:

:lol:......

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

Looking in niceic 'Snags & Solutions' earthing & bonding, Snag 43; Main protective bonding conductors should, ideally, not be looped from service to service. If this is not practicable, the main protective bonding conductor should not be cut at looped connections', they quote reg. 528.3.3.

528.3.3
Where an electrical service is to be installed in proximity to one or more non-electrical services it shall be so arranged that any foreseeable operations carried out on the other services will not cause damage to the electrical service or the converse.

NOTE this maybe achieved by
i) suitable spacing between services or
ii) the use of mechanical or thermal shielding


So i guess that if the Gas got moved for some reason, there would be a Loop left! not sure if that matters or just taping it up!

 

[Midwest]

Yep that's the idea, expect the gas engineer would sort that!

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

fair point, odds on just cut it, its in the way... or should we take it off carfully just incase its important.

Prim Example, Dad re-doing the carpet on the stairs cuts in to a cable, next thing i hear beeping.
"i didnt think you were using that cable" ... "its to the Stair left"
Fun trying to repair that, one core and uses the sheaf (dam someone correct that) as a return path

 

[Brightspark2]

It's fine. Get it done.

 

[Octopus]

There is nothing in BS 7671 which says the cable had to be continuous

Only GN8

Just saying.

 

[drzsta]

No need to waste copper running two main bonds. I'd rather do it with one on most occasions .

 

[baldsparkies]

Main equipotential bonding conductors may be separate or looped with unbroken conductors

 

[davesparks]

Main equipotential bonding conductors may be separate or looped with unbroken conductors

So can you not fit two lugs to a single 951 clamp to extend on to the next one then?

 

[baldsparkies]

So can you not fit two lugs to a single 951 clamp to extend on to the next one then?

Of course you can, we all can, but is it ok to do so ??
Or do we need to define "unbroken"
I can never see the problem to be honest. Any electrical connection can loosen or be disconnected, its not unique to bonding conductors after all.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Of course you can, we all can, but is it ok to do so ??
Or do we need to define "unbroken"
I can never see the problem to be honest. Any electrical connection can loosen or be disconnected, its not unique to bonding conductors after all.

There is no reg saying you can't.

 

[davesparks]

Of course you can, we all can, but is it ok to do so ??
Or do we need to define "unbroken"
I can never see the problem to be honest. Any electrical connection can loosen or be disconnected, its not unique to bonding conductors after all.

Sorry I wasn't clear in what I meant. I didn't mean is it physically possible. I meant is it permissible?

Where does the idea of it being unbroken come from? It's what I was taught as an apprentice so I'll have a look through my old regs books to see if it was ever a requirement

 

[baldsparkies]

Sorry I wasn't clear in what I meant. I didn't mean is it physically possible. I meant is it permissible?

Where does the idea of it being unbroken come from? It's what I was taught as an apprentice so I'll have a look through my old regs books to see if it was ever a requirement

GN3 and the way reg. 528.3.3. is or is not interpreted.
And then that get out of jail term also gets used, you know the one (good electrical practice).
Often used by those who want to suggest "it wouldn't be to do otherwise", without actually saying why!!
My opinion and, or definition. If the way the cable is lugged or joined is of good sound construction, then it continues unbroken. And as such, no different or any more at risk than to the way the cable is terminated at either end.
But that word unbroken is banded around, and as been for many years in relation to using a single conductor in this daisy chained way.
I have no problem with it, others might.

 

[uksparks]

So can you not fit two lugs to a single 951 clamp to extend on to the next one then?

Agree it would be ideal to loop it, but I personally can't see the problem with crimping proper ends on the cable and bolting them together.

i guess the point in looping it is if the first gets disconnected it will still be connected at the end, but equally at the same time it has just been disconnected from the first service.

 

[sparkdog]

Usually plumbers like to disconnect them all.

 

[micknew]

Common sense indicates that not cutting a water/gas common bond cable at its first connection is sensible in the long term.
Trouble is common sense seems to be lacking in some of the above posts IMHO.

 

[Richard Burns]

The wording in GN8 is that the cable should be continuous not must be continuous, so the guidance to the regulations is that it would be best to be continuous.
The wording in the regulations about any forseeable operation not causing damage means that I need to protect the connection against the more likely scenario of the plumber just cutting the cable, so I have decided to bury my bonding conductors and connections in steel reinforced concrete.

I was about to get a code on my assessment for having two crimped lugs on the BS951 to extend from water to gas and had to change it to a through crimp. They quoted the made up stuff from the NICIEC as well, which has nothing to do with the regulations.

In practice if someone is going to be as stupid to disconnect the bonding they will cut the cable not sit there with a screwdriver and release the clamp and undo the cable connections, so the cable being continuous is immaterial.

 

[andyb]

We've had this discussion before, I take 'should' to mean that I should do something, why would you not?
The whole of gn8 is 'guidance' and it's written by the IET, so it's a guide their own work. To ignore it is madness.

I've seen the earth clamp removed and left hanging several times, every time has been on refurb work where the plumber has disconnected the gas or water to carry out his work.

 

[Richard Burns]

Where the bonding clamp has been removed this would not affect the other service as the bonding would still be connected through the clamp.
I am reminded of this one I saw:

 

[andyb]

Where the bonding clamp has been removed this would not affect the other service as the bonding would still be connected through the clamp.
I am reminded of this one I saw:

Well there's only one cable there so it would make no difference one way or another.

If there was another earth cable going off to the water then it makes sense to have it continuous in this situation, something floating like this is always susceptible to being pulled or damaged.

As in GN8.

 

[PEG]

...and then there's the connections that are continuous,tight and well made...with a dangly,severed end just below the floor boards,with a knot in it to prevent removal and discovery...

No surprise,as same job had round section bootlaces tied to old VIR lead wrap pins,to support 6m of 22mm gas pipe :winkiss: