TT earth rod to shed or non connected garage..advice please

[trev]

Oh please! Not the Part P Police! Anything but that! I did all the proper tests and certs and I am properly qualified!
I swear I've never stacked shelves in Tesco or any other supermarket, I've never been in IT. All I've ever been is an electrician and now I'll be dragged off for "re-education" in a gulag style training centre!
Goodbye cruel world

 

[dogwind]

Oh bugger! Yesterday I installed a few extra sockets for an old lady and 2 outside lights for a neighbour. Best get on to the DNO then to let them know about these potentially massive extra loads then.
Who's been telling you this load of old crap mate?

It was an electrician I work with a lot was on a car charging point course last week and was the NIC instructor that told them they must inform the DNO every time they install a charge point.

 

[trev]

It was an electrician I work with a lot was on a car charging point course last week and was the NIC instructor that told them they must inform the DNO every time they install a charge point.

A training course ran by the enemy. Good grief I wonder how much they stiffed your mate out of for that. Did he get a nice shiny bit of paper that he can proudly show the world and some nice stickers for his van (As you can probably tell I'm not a great admirer of NIC)
As I understand it these electric vehicle charging points are on a 32 amp supply so if we apply the same "logic" if I install a new 32A RFC in a building then I should be informing the DNO.
See what I mean about the NIC talking a load of crap?

 

[dogwind]

A training course ran by the enemy. Good grief I wonder how much they stiffed your mate out of for that. Did he get a nice shiny bit of paper that he can proudly show the world and some nice stickers for his van (As you can probably tell I'm not a great admirer of NIC)
As I understand it these electric vehicle charging points are on a 32 amp supply so if we apply the same "logic" if I install a new 32A RFC in a building then I should be informing the DNO.
See what I mean about the NIC talking a load of crap?

He isn't with the NIC he uses elecsa but it probably more a way they can keep a register of charge points so either the DNO or government can tax you for charging your car in the future.

 

[dogwind]

Dogwind sounds about right, or bull****, either is correct for this thread lmao

Oh mate you are so witty and obviously extremely funny you are wasted as an electrician when there is space for more stand up comedians. I could hardly read the writing with the tears of laughter running down my face. Keep up the good work you must be doing.

 

[HandySparks]

Who's been telling you this load of old crap mate?

ENA - Electric Vehicle Infrastructure

 

[trev]

As I say though, using the same "logic" they should be concerned about the new 32A RFCs I'm installing on Monday then.

 

[dogwind]

ENA - Electric Vehicle Infrastructure

thanks for that link mate.

 

[Guest77]

Oh mate you are so witty and obviously extremely funny you are wasted as an electrician when there is space for more stand up comedians. I could hardly read the writing with the tears of laughter running down my face. Keep up the good work you must be doing.

Cheers, I am glad you have a sence of humour, not many wanabees have.

 

[dogwind]

Cheers, I am glad you have a sence of humour, not many wanabees have.

Compared to the **** that's going on in places like Syria I don't think any of us has got much to get arsey about. Especially stuff wrote on forums. Lol

 

[Guest77]

Compared to the **** that's going on in places like Syria I don't think any of us has got much to get arsey about. Especially stuff wrote on forums. Lol

Yup very true, can't agree more.

 

[Engineer54]

ENA - Electric Vehicle Infrastructure

These ENA people are basically a lobbyist type organisation/association from what i can make of it, with absolutely no legal standing whatsoever. Yet another set-up making up it's own worthless rules!!

 

[Knobhead]

As per usual the IET weren’t slow at spotting a profit. E54 I’m surprised you didn’t mention this.

 

[Engineer54]

Yeah, .....very slow!! lol!!

It's all a bloody farce isn't it, a course on how to install a radial socket outlet, and now 55 Quid
to tell/show a qualified electrician how to install a 32A plug, or 35 quid to tell/show an IET member!!!

And this from the very people that are supposedly representing the electrical industry. The IET have been going down hill for a number of years now, ''Electrical'' isn't even a part of the new name it's given itself!! Pass the BUILDING SERVICES area of the institute including BS 7671 over to CIBSE, leave the rest to IET!!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Thanks for your replies, its been driving me mad trying to find it written down anywhere, i also had a nic electrician telling me the other day he was told he had to do an earth bond to a lightning condutor on a house which i feel isnt right, if it did get struck by lightning then that could then travel through all the earthing into the house, and unless i am wrong i think a lightning conductor is sort of like a TT rod and you are told never to combine TNCS PME earthing to a TT system with a connecting earth!

Where are you getting this nonsense from?

Lightning conductors are an ECP and should be connected to the MET by a main bond.

Adding earth rods with a good Ra to the origin of a PME installation is a very good idea.

Just seen this thread and have to say I have never understood the requirement to main bond a lightning conductor. Yes it is an ECP but it is on the outside of the building and does not enter the zone of equal potential,being outside it is surrounded by the general mass of earth so what is the point of bonding it? I looked into this following an EICR on a church,and it seems that main bonding a LC should only be carried out with reference to other british standards,and with the advise of a LC specialist....which is beyond the scope of a 'normal' electrician. I have to say also that I have NEVER seen a main bonded LC! Now I note lack of a bond on an EICR as a code 3 and add that the guidance of an LC specialist should be sought.

 

[davesparks]

Lightning protection systems will be bonded to all exposed metalwork outside and the structural metalwork of the building, this will extend into the equipotential zone of the installation.

You will rarely see the main bond to a lightning protection system, the correct place to connect the bond is below ground level, often connected to the earth rod nearest the MET.

 

[Engineer54]

Lightning protection systems will be bonded to all exposed metalwork outside and the structural metalwork of the building, this will extend into the equipotential zone of the installation.

You will rarely see the main bond to a lightning protection system, the correct place to connect the bond is below ground level, often connected to the earth rod nearest the MET.

Lightning Protection systems should ''Always'' be bonded to the buildings MET, and as stated the connection is generally to the nearest down conductor earth rod, or in the case of a buried copper tape ring, to the nearest point on the copper tape!!

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Lightning protection systems will be bonded to all exposed metalwork outside and the structural metalwork of the building, this will extend into the equipotential zone of the installation.

You will rarely see the main bond to a lightning protection system, the correct place to connect the bond is below ground level, often connected to the earth rod nearest the MET.

Lightning Protection systems should ''Always'' be bonded to the buildings MET, and as stated the connection is generally to the nearest down conductor earth rod, or in the case of a buried copper tape ring, to the nearest point on the copper tape!!

Neither of which explains the point of bonding a lightning conductor.....yes possibly if the LC is in contact with sructural steel,but more often than not the LC's I come across could not possibly introduce an earth potential into the equipotential zone.

 

[Engineer54]

Neither of which explains the point of bonding a lightning conductor.....yes possibly if the LC is in contact with sructural steel,but more often than not the LC's I come across could not possibly introduce an earth potential into the equipotential zone.

What sort of buildings with LP systems do you work on?? You'd be surprised what a few million volts can penetrate to get to earthed metalwork inside the building or structure or even metalwork that forms part of the buildings fabric (eg.. concrete rebar/reinforcement etc)

 

[ferg]

I went to quote for a domestic after a lightning strike.

I was astounded by the damage.

The pole mounted TX was in bits all over the place.

The metal clad CU was blown to bits.

The internal fabric of the building had been destroyed by cables flapping about and bits of the roof were missing.

It was a bit unusual though.

The DNO guy attending afterwards said he'd been to loads of lightning strikes but never seen anything like it.

I got a couple of calls after the event from folks wanting lightning protection

 

[Engineer54]

I went to quote for a domestic after a lightning strike.

I was astounded by the damage.

The pole mounted TX was in bits all over the place.

The metal clad CU was blown to bits.

The internal fabric of the building had been destroyed by cables flapping about and bits of the roof were missing.

It was a bit unusual though.

The DNO guy attending afterwards said he'd been to loads of lightning strikes but never seen anything like it.

I got a couple of calls after the event from folks wanting lightning protection

Probably caused by multiple streamers from a single lightning strike, unusual but decidedly devastating to an unprotected building, even in some cases where an LP system had been installed but not very well designed or installed....

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I think the vehicle charging installer has misunderstood.
There are requirements which differ between DNOs for the provision of TN-C-S earthing for street furniture.
As far as I am aware, those requirements do not apply where the charging point is to be added to an existing installation.
Where a charging point is to be street furniture, invariable an earth electrode will be required.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

What sort of buildings with LP systems do you work on?? You'd be surprised what a few million volts can penetrate to get to earthed metalwork inside the building or structure or even metalwork that forms part of the buildings fabric (eg.. concrete rebar/reinforcement etc)

Last EICR was a medieval stone build church with no other services requiring bonding....but also schools with LC provision. I have not seen any evidence of main bonding to the LC in any of the schools I work,but that does not mean it is not present. I remain unsure of this, there is a requirement to bond CH pipes,but I would only do so if those pipes were introducing an external earth potential to the equipotential zone,which is a rare scenario. Same for an LC entirely on the outside of the building. If that LC is attached to structural steel then it would be the steel i was looking to be bonded,not the LC.

 

[telectrix]

Compared to the **** that's going on in places like Syria I don't think any of us has got much to get arsey about. Especially stuff wrote on forums. Lol

how long have they had part p in syria then?

 

[Engineer54]

Last EICR was a medieval stone build church with no other services requiring bonding....but also schools with LC provision. I have not seen any evidence of main bonding to the LC in any of the schools I work,but that does not mean it is not present. I remain unsure of this, there is a requirement to bond CH pipes,but I would only do so if those pipes were introducing an external earth potential to the equipotential zone,which is a rare scenario. Same for an LC entirely on the outside of the building. If that LC is attached to structural steel then it would be the steel i was looking to be bonded,not the LC.

If you are still not convinced, i suggest you check out all or any of the many LP articles covering the protection of buildings on the internet. You will find that ''ALL'' will stipulate the need for the connection of a LP system to the equipotential bonding to the buildings MET (the better ones giving the reasons why), be they based on BS, NFPA (NEC), VDE/DIN, IEC etc, or come to that, any countries LP standards.... It can't get any clearer than that!!

 

[Knobhead]

Last EICR was a medieval stone build church with no other services requiring bonding....but also schools with LC provision. I have not seen any evidence of main bonding to the LC in any of the schools I work,but that does not mean it is not present. I remain unsure of this, there is a requirement to bond CH pipes,but I would only do so if those pipes were introducing an external earth potential to the equipotential zone,which is a rare scenario. Same for an LC entirely on the outside of the building. If that LC is attached to structural steel then it would be the steel i was looking to be bonded,not the LC.

Time you did some reading up about lightning conductors. Especially at what point you can connect the MET to.