Ring main.

[Electrics]

the problem in France is that anyone can do their own thing in their property, there is no legislation to stop them, it's only if the property is let short or long term that any type of check is carried out, this also applies on re-sale, but as with all of these things it's a tick box exercise carried out by non electricians, the only time a domestic building is checked is if it requires a new installation, then the Consul will check, this may only consist of one socket and one lighting circuit, but if they conform to the Regulations then the power will be connected.

I've just sold my French house and you're right - the only check done was the diagnostique guy sticking some machine into the sockets and that was it.

It's funny though - with all our legislation and rules and schemes etc European countries still insist we're 'unregulated' compared to them and their standards. Bit batty if you ask me.

 

[Mike Johnson]

They look down their respective nose's at the UK because of the use of Ring Mains and only just insisting on two RCD's in our DB's. Try telling a French Electrician that it's now called a Final Ring Circuit and see how profound the shrug of the shoulders would be.

I think the French are trying to tighten up on the Diagnostique, I have read somewhere they have to push the test button on the RCD's. What they most seem to be interested in now is Equipotential Bonding to the service's and bathrooms, but at least it's become a three page Diagnostique tick list.

 

[Mark Wright]

I sent a message to hager asking how many cables can be terminated into a MCB and here is detailed reply LOL!

Good Afternoon

You can only fit one cable into a MCB

Technical Support

Hager Ltd

So no more Rings

 

[DPG]

I sent a message to hager asking how many cables can be terminated into a MCB and here is detailed reply LOL!

Good Afternoon

You can only fit one cable into a MCB

Technical Support

Hager Ltd

So no more Rings

Can't believe their tech support dept said that. I would be taking that a bit further.

 

[pc1966]

You can only fit one cable into a MCB

What about both ends of the same cable?

 

[Mark Wright]

What about both ends of the same cable?

Yeah why not a mini ring

 

[Pete999]

Yeah why not a mini ring

What's a "mini ring"?

 

[Mark Wright]

 

[LastManOnline]

I'm not saying I would do this because I wouldn't install like this, but I am going to play devils advocate.

Which regulations does such an arrangement breach?

And how would two ring final circuits installed in accordance with the regulations connected to the same 32A MCB be dangerous?

As I say I wouldn't do it, except as a temporary measure to restore supply, so I'm just curious about the thought process behind the statements.

You are correct. It would, nt be dangerous as the mcb will simply trip when overloaded. However, would it be good practice? No. Would it likely cause inconvenience for the homeowner? Almost certainly at some point
[automerge]1596397821[/automerge]

What's a "mini ring"?

Here's to "Ring circuits" one of the dinaosaurs of the electrical industry. Don't wish to offend anyone but having operated in one of possibly only 2 countries that actually use this wiring method I would hope that threads like this speed up its demise and finally put it out of its misery. It never deserved centre stage and was never going to be able to upstage its bigger brother on the world stage.. the Radial circuit. That said I have used it occasionally. It can in certain circumstances be a "get out of jail card".

 

[Mike Johnson]

Here's to "Ring circuits" one of the dinaosaurs of the electrical industry. Don't wish to offend anyone but having operated in one of possibly only 2 countries that actually use this wiring method I would hope that threads like this speed up its demise and finally put it out of its misery. It never deserved centre stage and was never going to be able to upstage its bigger brother on the world stage.. the Radial circuit. That said I have used it occasionally. It can in certain circumstances be a "get out of jail card".

Ohh Edmond you are going to get some flack for that comment, although I agree.

 

[LastManOnline]

Ohh Edmond you are going to get some flack for that comment, although I agree.

You got my back Mike! Bring it on!

 

[pc1966]

You can save some effort by just going through this thread:

Why does the UK use rings for sockets? - in - Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations

, Why does the UK use rings for sockets?, Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations, ElectriciansForums.net Est.2006 | Free Electrical Advice Forum and page_number.

www.electriciansforums.net

 

[LastManOnline]

You can save some effort by just going through this thread:

Why does the UK use rings for sockets? - in - Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations

, Why does the UK use rings for sockets?, Electrical Wiring, Theories and Regulations, ElectriciansForums.net Est.2006 | Free Electrical Advice Forum and page_number.

www.electriciansforums.net

That is a good thread actually. I appreciate the arguments for and against. I should say that I like you served my time in an environment where rings circuits were common. But they have fallen out of favour for the simple reason we find radials more advantageous. Now to those who have a preference for the ring circuit, all the best to them. Our regs still allow ring circuits but there are increasing restrictions on their use. I have not seen a ring circuit installed on a new build in the last 30 years. Its unspoken, but overhere there is a feeling that the clock is ticking on them.However as I mentioned they have a role to be play. On an occasion recently (installation with poor electrical design) we combined 2 radials to make a ring and it solved a major headache. But it's in that role I have always seen the ring, as a support, rathar than the main act

 

[pc1966]

That is a good thread actually. I appreciate the arguments for and against. I should say that I like you served my time in an environment where rings circuits were common. But they have fallen out of favour for the simple reason we find radials more advantageous.

Advantageous in what way?

Now to those who have a preference for the ring circuit, all the best to them. Our regs still allow ring circuits but there are increasing restrictions on their use. I have not seen a ring circuit installed on a new build in the last 30 years. Its unspoken, but over here there is a feeling that the clock is ticking on them.However as I mentioned they have a role to be play. On an occasion recently (installation with poor electrical design) we combined 2 radials to make a ring and it solved a major headache. But it's in that role I have always seen the ring, as a support, rathar than the main act

Is this part of a move to closer alignment with EU wiring practice (similar to your T&E going for equal-size CPCs)?

Or any other specific reason(s) for the preference?

 

[Vortigern]

Here's to "Ring circuits" one of the dinaosaurs of the electrical industry. Don't wish to offend anyone but having operated in one of possibly only 2 countries that actually use this wiring method I would hope that threads like this speed up its demise and finally put it out of its misery

Ok now you've got my dander up! Ring circuits will probably disappear eventually. But the reason is not some technical reason it is because of the dumbing down of the population in general. As regards the origins of the ring circuit it was maybe ahead of it's time ecologically as it was to save copper, ergo the natural environment. As you know I am an advocate of the ring circuit as per the other thread you referred to. Perhaps you are an agent provocateur insidiously dripping non reasons for getting rid of the ring circuit? It seems you don't like them with a vengeance. Which is a bit strange not to be dispassionate about a bit of wire and solely concentrate on the science and reasoning of each circuit type. Both have their merits and application, you just jolly well leave our ring circuits alone chappy.

 

[Risteard]

I support and endorse the ring final circuit.

 

[Mike Johnson]

In line with EU practice, Dual pole MCB's and radial circuits will halve the time taken for inspections and fault finding.

Dives for cover.

 

[pc1966]

In line with EU practice, Dual pole MCB's and radial circuits will halve the time taken for inspections and fault finding.

Dives for cover.

[ Citation required ]

 

[nicebutdim]

In line with EU practice, Dual pole MCB's and radial circuits will halve the time taken for inspections and fault finding.

Dives for cover.

Does EU practice mandate that radial circuits run simply from point to point? If any branches are permitted then surely inspection and fault finding becomes less straightforward.

I ask this because I remember reading about some European countries where it was common to find radial circuits that branched off in many directions - sort of like a tree.

 

[Mike Johnson]

It is not recommended or detailed in the norms.