The future of Part P in question?

[telectrix]

but, surely, the loss in sales to joe public would be compensated by joe public calling us in and then us buying the gear they would have bought. i would not restrict the sale of faceplates, light fittings etc. as they are jobs which could be done DIY. as for the sheds, they make enough profit anyway. never seen b&q selling gas boilers

 

[spsparks]

qualified experienced electricians are under valued. We need the same exposure as the corgi guys got in the past. Niceic, napit and elecsa should be doing more campaigning on our behalf because they take enough of our cash and seem to do very little with it.

 

[pushrod]

but, surely, the loss in sales to joe public would be compensated by joe public calling us in and then us buying the gear they would have bought. i would not restrict the sale of faceplates, light fittings etc. as they are jobs which could be done DIY. as for the sheds, they make enough profit anyway. never seen b&q selling gas boilers

I agree, yes there would be some black marketing of restricted items, but the the vast majority of the public would quickly come to realise that fitting a new circuit etc,etc is not a job for them. It would be dead easy to do as well. Even screwfix has gone a little bit down that path with their "electrifix" branch.

BTW telectrix, your signature is brill

 

[lj.l]

agree Ive been in a house fire and sprinklers would have saved more than the smoke dectectors that told me the house was on fire. and it would have give me time to get my disabled mother out without endangering me or my brother

 

[Jimmy Boy]

< SNIPPED >

BTW telectrix, your signature is brill

That sig is hilarious...

 

[accordfire]

but, surely, the loss in sales to joe public would be compensated by joe public calling us in and then us buying the gear they would have bought. i would not restrict the sale of faceplates, light fittings etc. as they are jobs which could be done DIY. as for the sheds, they make enough profit anyway. never seen b&q selling gas boilers

No, perhaps not, but you do see Screwupfix selling them, and many small trade outlets too - the justification being that of course you'll get your local gas safe man to fit it.

I've no issue with restricting sales to the trade - just the certain knowledge that it would be taking on the might of every last wholesaler and manufacturer out there, and who would also be putting their prices up drastically too, to account for any reduction in volume.

And before you know it, the average cost of an additional socket outlet is £400. To be sure, that would work in favour of climate control, but, I just don't think there's any way back there.

Realistically, if a re-wire was priced to a point where it was costing £30k for an average domestic, how many fifty year old installations would we end up working on?

Economically, the money just isn't there to bear any of that kind of change, and I don't think we'll see restricted sales in our lifetimes.

 

[accordfire]

agree Ive been in a house fire and sprinklers would have saved more than the smoke dectectors that told me the house was on fire. and it would have give me time to get my disabled mother out without endangering me or my brother

Yup. Fire safety, in particular, is my passion, I guess, rather than just a job - and it's scary sometimes seeing the ways and speed in which fire spreads.

I've long felt that sprinklers should be a mandatory fitting to new builds - both resi and commercial.

A simple multi-zone system wouldn't cost the earth in any house, needn't use any specialist parts not available now, and could make a real difference to saving lives, property, and more. Quite simply, a few runs of pipe round the building in the ceilings - sprinkler heads in each room, and zone controlled by a smoke detector in each area. That's all it would take in any house.

And to be honest with you, the issue of how to make safe disabled persons is fundamental - and it's always been ignored. The DDA doesn't really go far enough in terms of fire safety, and neither to building regs.

And it's more important than ever, now we're returning higher and higher numbers of physically maimed men and women from the various wars we're tied up in.

 

[jase]

a step in the right direction would be restricting sales of electrical equipment. we already have ID age requirements for cigs. and alcohol. why not have all qualified, competent sparks carry ID card proving that they are qualified/competent, similar to a JIB card. No card, No Sale.

and what would they deem as qualified? I am C+G 2360 (2 nights a week for 3 years) and 17th edition update qualified, but as i have not passed an AM2 or an NVQ3 aswell, the JIB will only give me an Adult Trainee card when i do my CSCS.

 

[ezzzekiel]

cant see the problem myself, i think partp works perfectly

 

[IQ Electrical]

cant see the problem myself, i think partp works perfectly

I'm looking for the 'smilie' !

 

[ezzzekiel]

lol )))))

 

[IQ Electrical]

lol )))))

That's better!

 

[pushrod]

never seen b&q selling gas boilers

No, perhaps not, but you do see Screwupfix selling them, and many small trade outlets too - the justification being that of course you'll get your local gas safe man to fit it.

.

Interestingly, i was in screwfix today and was held up for ages as the guys in front of me couldn't prove that they were qualified gas safe or the company they were subcontracting for were registered. Obviously in the trade as they had a van outside with name on, but credit to them as they refused to sell the parts without some written proof. Must admit i was surprised as i thought they were going to say something like 'well bring your card in next time'. So, times they are a changin'

 

[IQ Electrical]

Interestingly, i was in screwfix today and was held up for ages as the guys in front of me couldn't prove that they were qualified gas safe or the company they were subcontracting for were registered. Obviously in the trade as they had a van outside with name on, but credit to them as they refused to sell the parts without some written proof. Must admit i was surprised as i thought they were going to say something like 'well bring your card in next time'. So, times they are a changin'

Took me 45 minutes and our NICEIC certificate to get our Screwfix account transferred to electrifix, I was actually quite impressed by their integrity although I didn't say so at the time!

 

[accordfire]

Well fair play to Screwfix then, if that's they way they're playing it. They stand alone on that basis, so far.

Must look into this electricifx business at some point.

 

[Gravid]

Is it just me or does anyone else think the only people who know about part p are us sparks ? Getting really bored of explaining it to clients who have never heard of it !! There was a B&Q ad a while back of a fella switching on his brand new cooker hood, " you can do it " well technically he shouldn't be doing it should he if he'd heard of part p.

 

[accordfire]

Is it just me or does anyone else think the only people who know about part p are us sparks ? Getting really bored of explaining it to clients who have never heard of it !! There was a B&Q ad a while back of a fella switching on his brand new cooker hood, " you can do it " well technically he shouldn't be doing it should he if he'd heard of part p.

Probably not. But I'm not sure you're totally right - not by the example in our house.......

"I can't switch the kettle on" says she - "it's in a special zone, and I'm not Part P registered!"......Cow.

My excuse is there's water in it, and I'm not a plumber.

 

[Gravid]

Haha. It just kind of feels like we do our bit, the paying so much a year and being checked that we haven't forgotten how to do the job we all trained to do, for what? No one give's a monkeys about part p except us. Sheds still sell bathroom rated lights, mains boards etc for the untrained to "do it themselves". I can't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[spsparks]

Is it just me or does anyone else think the only people who know about part p are us sparks ? Getting really bored of explaining it to clients who have never heard of it !!

Thats why we are asked for 500 quid every year and given a sticker to put on the van.............

 

[telectrix]

bloody expensive sticker!

 

[spsparks]

bloody expensive sticker!

compulsory sticker too

 

[telectrix]

do to cover a couple of dents anyway

 

[m25maintenance]

2391? i disagree. i dont av it. i only av 2330 level 2 & 3 and 17th which is a bit of paper that says i can read a red book. i dont design installations. i do basic domestic jobs. new circuits, extended circuits cu changes. i follow all the guidlines so do i need 2391. ??????

 

[millwall ken]

and what would they deem as qualified? I am C+G 2360 (2 nights a week for 3 years) and 17th edition update qualified, but as i have not passed an AM2 or an NVQ3 aswell, the JIB will only give me an Adult Trainee card when i do my CSCS.

Thats because in the JIB's eyes you ain't worth a ****. I'm in same boat, and despite TWO recommendations from NIC registered and approved sparkies, they only gave me a poxy trainee card. My arguement was why ask for a ******* recommendation then....

 

[sixfingers]

Thats why we are asked for 500 quid every year and given a sticker to put on the van.............

Your given your sticker? nic want paying extra for their stickers! lol

 

[Phil]

i don`t use electrafix after they stuffed me up on an important order they promised to have in for sat morning when i popped in on the friday afternoon. i paid in full and they said they would ring when it came in. i went in tuesday morning to get my cash back. the guy who dealt with my so called order never put it through. not an apology or anything

 

[chiefengineer]

Couldn't disagree more. Not all householders have no idea of wiring. Take myself. I've joined this forum to see what I have to do to be able to re-wire a house I'm renovating. Now I'm a Chief Engineer on a high voltage DSV. 19Mw eight generator 6.6KVA. I service HV electrical equipment, run 3Ph, trouble shoot variable frequency drives and deal with highly complex PLC CAN-bus control systems. And I can't put a socket into my own shed. I probably know more about electrical theory than most but cannot legally do even simple tasks. I do agree that there are some numb nuts out there who struggle to wire a plug, but surely "Competence," should be the deciding factor. I can do an electrical course that takes a few weeks and get part P but instead did 4 years plus ten years experience and three college stints to get fully qualified but I'm deemed to be unable to do a simple task in my own home. Would it not be better to have a system that assesses your knowledge based on your previous experience? I appreciate that electricians need work but alienating householders is not it. Most people don't know that they can't do very much and if they did along with potential fines then there could easily be a general public backlash. Imagine going to a house to do a job that a householder deems to be simple but has to call in an electrician at high cost because Big Brother says so? Electricians would end up in the same category as bankers, solicitors and tax inspectors.

 

[telectrix]

i appreciate your thoughts as stated. the whole system needs reviewing as you say, with a whole lot of knowledge and competence , without being part pee approved, legally you are not allowed to do a simple job in your own home, yet a fresh out of a 4 week course with less than a tenth of your knowledge and experience can legally do same job. bit like keystone cops or laurel and hardy.

 

[millwall ken]

Couldn't disagree more. Not all householders have no idea of wiring. Take myself. I've joined this forum to see what I have to do to be able to re-wire a house I'm renovating. Now I'm a Chief Engineer on a high voltage DSV. 19Mw eight generator 6.6KVA. I service HV electrical equipment, run 3Ph, trouble shoot variable frequency drives and deal with highly complex PLC CAN-bus control systems. And I can't put a socket into my own shed. I probably know more about electrical theory than most but cannot legally do even simple tasks. I do agree that there are some numb nuts out there who struggle to wire a plug, but surely "Competence," should be the deciding factor. I can do an electrical course that takes a few weeks and get part P but instead did 4 years plus ten years experience and three college stints to get fully qualified but I'm deemed to be unable to do a simple task in my own home. Would it not be better to have a system that assesses your knowledge based on your previous experience? I appreciate that electricians need work but alienating householders is not it. Most people don't know that they can't do very much and if they did along with potential fines then there could easily be a general public backlash. Imagine going to a house to do a job that a householder deems to be simple but has to call in an electrician at high cost because Big Brother says so? Electricians would end up in the same category as bankers, solicitors and tax inspectors.

Thats the whole problem with the ridiculous set up mate - These protection rackets, and thats what the NICEIC, ELECSA, KGB etc etc really are; should be out there educating the public as to the importance of schemes like part pee. They should be fighting tooth and nail to prevent any Tom, Dick and Abdul from becoming registered as well, but will they? All they want to do is to take our money. I'm glad that I tend to stick to commercial. Stick welcome aboard anyway.

 

[SimpleSimon]

I think as a collection lads we've nearly got it sussed.

Personally the three main things to stop joe public.
1. All electricians must be licensed. You have to carry a licence to trade. To get a licence you must be converse in 17th edition upto date qualification. 16th? Take your 17th to get any further. Want to carry out PIRs? 2391. Want to carry aspects of commercial or industrial? 2330. (forgive me if I'm wrong on that.) whatever area you want to cover you will be licences accordingly and like a driving licence these will expire and when you want to renew you have to update your qualifications.

2.take all materials off the shelf of the public. You want to get your house rewired?you need to find a licensed electrician who has to produce their card at the wholesaler to get their materials.

3. Advertise. We need to be protected by the big boys who we pay heaps of money to for that hopeful privalige. Advertise plenty of horror DIY stories of death, fire and paying insurance premiums through the snot of your nose. Scare tactics.

As for the cowboys, yeah they will always be there that's a fact of life we live with. But we can minimise these people by really relaying the dangers of a bad job.