AM2- Clipping cables to tray with P clips?

[ManchesterKirchoff]

This might come across as a really daft question to people who work with cable tray quite often but as part of my AM2, I am to clip FP200 to the tray using:

• P Clip
• Nut
• Washer

I’m just a bit confused about how this should look and which parts should be on the “inside” where the cable runs on the tray and the outside (if that makes sense)?

Just don’t want to drop marks or even fail because I’ve in correctly used P clips as I’d find that quite embarrassing to say the least.

If anyone could please explain how this should look or even any pics I’d be really grateful, AM2’s on Monday and I have enough to worry about as is other than P clips.

 

[ipf]

This might come across as a really daft question to people who work with cable tray quite often but as part of my AM2, I am to clip FP200 to the tray using:

• P Clip
• Nut
• Washer

It is bit daft if you have no screws to help fit them all.

 

[ManchesterKirchoff]

It is bit daft if you have no screws to help fit them all.

As you can tell my heads a bit all over, I’ll make sure I use them in the exam

 

[GBDamo]

This might come across as a really daft question to people who work with cable tray quite often but as part of my AM2, I am to clip FP200 to the tray using:

• P Clip
• Nut
• Washer

I’m just a bit confused about how this should look and which parts should be on the “inside” where the cable runs on the tray and the outside (if that makes sense)?

Just don’t want to drop marks or even fail because I’ve in correctly used P clips as I’d find that quite embarrassing to say the least.

If anyone could please explain how this should look or even any pics I’d be really grateful, AM2’s on Monday and I have enough to worry about as is other than P clips.

If you're being asked to use P clips on tray then you need to seriously question the veracity of this educational institution. Just why?

Some clown pulled me for not using metal cable ties on tray, tray above a 60min fire rated plasterboard ceiling at that. Any incident that causes those cables to be an entanglement issue for the water fairies is probably going to require Iodine tablets.

 

[ManchesterKirchoff]

If you're being asked to use P clips on tray then you need to seriously question the veracity of this educational institution. Just why?

Some clown pulled me for not using metal cable ties on tray, tray above a 60min fire rated plasterboard ceiling at that. Any incident that causes those cables to be an entanglement issue for the water fairies is probably going to require Iodine tablets.

Agree wholeheartedly, frustrating as other sparks at my place were only ever asked to use cable ties so why it’s changed I couldn’t tell you

 

[UNG]

If you're being asked to use P clips on tray then you need to seriously question the veracity of this educational institution. Just why?

It is an AM2 exam you are there to prove you can work to a standard and understand why you would use that fixing method so what is the problem

Some clown pulled me for not using metal cable ties on tray, tray above a 60min fire rated plasterboard ceiling at that. Any incident that causes those cables to be an entanglement issue for the water fairies is probably going to require Iodine tablets.

Have you ever thought that it might be to maintain the operational integrity of the cable if there is a fire in the void or the temperature rises in the void causing a failure of the fixings if a fire occurs

I have a very low regard of FP mainly down to the poor installation methods adopted by some, everybody will bang on about following the manufacturers instructions yet in a lot of cases when it comes to the installation of FP they don't bother

 

[GBDamo]

It is an AM2 exam you are there to prove you can work to a standard and understand why you would use that fixing method so what is the problem

It's not FP or P clips or tray, it's the combination of the three. The purpose of any exam is to prove capability but it has to be contextualised. You may as well give the lad a chisel, some marble and see if he can carve up a David; he's as likely to be asked to do that in his career as to install FP on tray using P clips.

Have you ever thought that it might be to maintain the operational integrity of the cable if there is a fire in the void or the temperature rises in the void causing a failure of the fixings if a fire occurs

Genuinely, P Clips on tray? If it's a thing I've never seen it and, if it's a thing, I can't see how it it would have anything other than a vanishingly small impact on the operational Integrity of the cable, especially compared to FP on tray.


I'm a long way from seeing everything so I'm more than willing to be enlightened.

I have a very low regard of FP mainly down to the poor installation methods adopted by some, everybody will bang on about following the manufacturers instructions yet in a lot of cases when it comes to the installation of FP they don't bother

Agreed but again, if correctly installed on tray, why P Clips?

 

[ipf]

It didn't used to be unusual to use pyro fixed with P clips to tray. Hence the nuts and washers, with brass screws. P clips opened and formed into U clips to fix rows of two or three cables or solid copper band for multi cables, cut, formed and drilled for fixings.

 

[UNG]

It didn't used to be unusual to use pyro fixed with P clips to tray. Hence the nuts and washers, with brass screws. P clips opened and formed into U clips to fix rows of two or three cables or solid copper band for multi cables, cut, formed and drilled for fixings.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has done a proper job like that

 

[UNG]

It's not FP or P clips or tray, it's the combination of the three. The purpose of any exam is to prove capability but it has to be contextualised. You may as well give the lad a chisel, some marble and see if he can carve up a David; he's as likely to be asked to do that in his career as to install FP on tray using P clips.

He may or will have to if he is doing the job properly. Having seen plenty of FP installed incorrectly and certainly not in accordance with manufacturers instructions it does make me wonder how many people can install it properly

Genuinely, P Clips on tray? If it's a thing I've never seen it and, if it's a thing, I can't see how it it would have anything other than a vanishingly small impact on the operational Integrity of the cable, especially compared to FP on tray.

I suppose a lot depends on the orientation of the tray

I'm a long way from seeing everything so I'm more than willing to be enlightened.

But you seem to be questioning the enlightenment

Agreed but again, if correctly installed on tray, why P Clips?

What do you suggest is correctly installed tray can be used in a number of orientations so would you use a different method for each again there is no reason why you couldn't saddle a number of cables together

I suppose this now begs the question is it acceptable to install FP in / on cable basket

 

[davesparks]

I’m just a bit confused about how this should look and which parts should be on the “inside” where the cable runs on the tray and the outside (if that makes sense)?

Your question does make sens, at least to me anyway.

So it shouldn't matter what goes where exactly, as long as the P clip is around the cable and securely fixed to the tray.

I would expect the screw to pass through the P clip, then through the tray with the nut and washer behind the tray.
If the hole in the tray is too big and the P clip is in danger of pulling through you might need to put a washer between the clip and the tray, you won't know this until you've seen it.

The main points they are likely to be looking at with this are that the cable is fixed securely and that there are enough clips to satisfy the minimum fixing distance for the cable.

As with everything on the AM2 read the instructions/spec/plan carefully, it doesn't always match the way you might have done things on site or would do things on a real installation.
The instructions may tell you how many clips to fit or the maximum allowed distance between them.

 

[davesparks]

It is bit daft if you have no screws to help fit them all.

That's really helpful, a trainee asks for a bit of advice and you decide to criticise them for a typo instead.

 

[davesparks]

If you're being asked to use P clips on tray then you need to seriously question the veracity of this educational institution. Just why?

Some clown pulled me for not using metal cable ties on tray, tray above a 60min fire rated plasterboard ceiling at that. Any incident that causes those cables to be an entanglement issue for the water fairies is probably going to require Iodine tablets.

A trainee asks for help 2 days before a major exam at the end of their training and instead of giving any helpful advice you tell them to question the veracity of the educational establishment. What is the point in that?

Obviously it's an unusual way to install in the real world, but exams aren't the real world.
Why not just stop and think about possible reasons for it being done this way instead of a knee-jerk criticism?

The key thing they will be looking for is knowledge of correct distances between clips and being able to secure the cable properly. They are not being examined on the practical skill of screwing a clip to a wall, they are being examined on the knowledge of where to put the clips and why.
If they were fitting P clips to a solid wall or piece of wood then once the first exam is over it will be obvious where the clips were installed and the next person will just copy them. Also the wall will very quickly wear out and the screws just fall out.
So a perforated metal surface where trainee can put the clips in a variety of places will be better.

Also consider they need to get as many elements of electrical work as possible into a very small space, they will inevitably overlap in some ways.

 

[ipf]

That's really helpful, a trainee asks for a bit of advice and you decide to criticise them for a typo instead.

Wrong side of the bed this mornin' ?

 

[nicebutdim]

Not aiming this at any one respondent, but Dave makes a valid point.

AM2 can be daunting for trainees and when this guy posts a question two days prior to his test, the majority of reponses have been arguing over irrelevant details.

Whatever the AM2 spec states is exactly what candidates are expected to do - opinions to the contrary don't matter and deviations from spec may result in a candidate failing that section. Failure rates are high.

 

[ipf]

Not aiming this at any one respondent, but Dave makes a valid point.

AM2 can be daunting for trainees and when this guy posts a question two days prior to his test, the majority of reponses have been arguing over irrelevant details.

Whatever the AM2 spec states is exactly what candidates are expected to do - opinions to the contrary don't matter and deviations from spec may result in a candidate failing that section. Failure rates are high.

With the amount of help given over the last fifteen years or so, can the odd casual remark not be taken with pinch of salt?
I can't see many jumping out of their seats to offer help....or comment, even.

It didn't used to be unusual to use pyro fixed with P clips to tray. Hence the nuts and washers, with brass screws. P clips opened and formed into U clips to fix rows of two or three cables or solid copper band for multi cables, cut, formed and drilled for fixings.

At least this was an effort to explain regarding clipping on tray.

 

[nicebutdim]

With the amount of help given over the last fifteen years or so, can the odd casual remark not be taken with pinch of salt?
I can't see many jumping out of their seats to offer help....or comment, even.

At least this was an effort to explain regarding clipping on tray.

As I stated, the comment wasn't aimed at any particular person and you did go on to provide an explanation. I'm not the forum police and people are free to post as they please, but it was worth pointing out that the guy is heading for his AM2 tomorrow and may well be stressed about it.

I've found it strange having to use P clips in this situation, but there's no reason why it shouldn't be done if called for in a spec.

 

[ipf]

As I stated, the comment wasn't aimed at any particular person and you did go on to provide an explanation. I'm not the forum police and people are free to post as they please, but it was worth pointing out that the guy is heading for his AM2 tomorrow and may well be stressed about it.

I've found it strange having to use P clips in this situation, but there's no reason why it shouldn't be done if called for in a spec.

No problem and nothing aimed at your comments.
Hope he stays cool and passes......and doesn't get a question regarding P clipping.

 

[mainline]

This might come across as a really daft question to people who work with cable tray quite often but as part of my AM2, I am to clip FP200 to the tray using:

• P Clip
• Nut
• Washer

It is bit daft if you have no screws to help fit them all.

It is bit daft if you have no screws to help fit them all.

Screws ? Or did you mean bolts

 

[nicebutdim]

It is bit daft if you have no screws to help fit them all.


Screws ? Or did you mean bolts

Most likely supplied with M4 screws.