E

Eco Deal

[h=1]25/1/2013: Green Deal Finance Company launches competitively priced finance open to all[/h] With the Green Deal set to go live next week, The Green Deal Finance Company (TGDFC) is completing its finance ready to lend to providers for the first Green Deal plans, immediately following their installation, and to meet demand for Green Deal Plans for 2013 and beyond. Unlike personal loans, TGDFC will offer funding to every accredited provider and will offer the same competitive rate of finance to the widest possible range of consumers. Rates will be comparable to the best high street rates for long-term unsecured loans. But whilst these are accessible to barely half the population, TGDFC will lend to over 80%.
Green Deal Providers will determine their own all-in package to consumers. However, on the basis of the finance agreements being put in place, TGDFC are now publishing the interest rate and charges for finance to Green Deal Providers. TGDFC's initial interest rate will be 6.96% per annum. Each Green Deal Plan will have a set up charge of £63 and annual operating charge of £20 payable by providers who may choose to add this to the overall cost of finance to the household, depending on the size and length of the Green Deal Plan.
The following table gives indicative all-in cost per annum for Plans of £5000, taking into account administration costs. The minimum Plan term is ten years.

[TD="width: 369"] Overall interest rates
[/TD]
[TD="width: 265"] £5,000
[/TD]

[TD="width: 369"]25 years
[/TD]
[TD="width: 265"]7.67%
[/TD]

[TD="width: 369"]20 years
[/TD]
[TD="width: 265"]7.73%
[/TD]

[TD="width: 369"]12 years
[/TD]
[TD="width: 265"]7.89%
[/TD]

[TD="width: 369"]10 years
[/TD]
[TD="width: 265"]7.96%
[/TD]

Because of the fixed costs of setting up and administering these loans, the more energy efficiency measures a household takes out over the lifetime of the product, the cheaper the all-in annual cost. So, if providers pass on all charges, someone doing the basics for £1,500 (on a 25 year deal) would pay a maximum all-in cost of 9.34%. But if that person takes out the full package of measures suitable for them, including solid wall insulation, loft insulation and other improvements totalling £5,000, they would only pay 7.67% - all funded by the expected savings on energy bills.
The most effective large scale, energy efficiency measures such cavity or solid wall insulation, can be financed over 10 - 25 years at interest rates of 7.96% - 7.67%. The "golden rule" is designed to ensure that expected savings on bills should be at least as big as the total repayments, including any interest rate. Those taking full advantage of the scheme could also currently benefit from over £1,000 in cash back from the Government.
Mark Bayley, Chief Executive Officer of The Green Deal Finance Company said:
"Our all-in cost of finance shows that the more energy efficiency measures a household takes advantage of, the better the long term return in terms of savings, and the lower the cost of overall finance.
"The Green Deal Finance Company has been formed to deliver transparent, competitive long term finance to as many households as possible, helping people to install the maximum number of energy efficiency features that can be self-financed through savings in their energy bills. This finance will be widely available and inclusive. We estimate that four out of five energy bill payers in the population will be able to access this finance. We know of no other source of low-cost credit which is this inclusive.
"While we're committed to financial inclusion, we will only lend responsibly. That means finding other ways to help those already in default on their financial obligations. We will work with leading local authorities and providers to see how tailored local support, combined with the Government's £540m Affordable Warmth and Carbon Saving Communities programmes, can reach those who need additional help. "
Lucy Shadbolt, head of green deal, Instagroup, one of TGDFC's founding members, who are launching their offer to consumers on Monday, said:
"Many of our customers are hard-pressed families struggling with rising fuel bills and aspiring to improve their homes. We are delighted to be able to offer such a competitive rate of finance which most of our customers would not normally be able to access. Because TGDFC is not-for-profit, our customers can be assured they are getting a good deal."
 
In my opinion this is a SALES POST.....and not what this forum is about.....

And also in my opinion any company with GREEN DEAL in its title has been set up in the last few months to make profit and take advantage from the Green Deal Scheme....
 
In my opinion this is a SALES POST.....and not what this forum is about......

I don't think it's a sales post. Eco Deal is MEP Electrical's new forum name - a long time contributor.

And also in my opinion any company with GREEN DEAL in its title has been set up in the last few months to make profit and take advantage from the Green Deal Scheme....

Which, of course, is surely not a bad idea.
 
In my opinion this is a SALES POST.....and not what this forum is about.....

And also in my opinion any company with GREEN DEAL in its title has been set up in the last few months to make profit and take advantage from the Green Deal Scheme....

What! Any company invested in the green deal are looking to move forward, if they profit from there services isn't that what a company does???
michael has spent more than 12 months getting everything put in place for his new company and I assume he's invested a lot of cash too to get to this stage where he is now.
no sales post here he's posted what's on the green deal finance company website for other members information.
click your thanks button!!!
 
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If the TGDFC is a not for profit organisation, their money costs are laughable if this is the interest rates that are being faced by consumers. The government should be providing finance at base rate or less to fund this, not the open market. The other worrying aspect is what kind of[FONT=Arial, sans-serif] bureaucracy[/FONT] has been set up here and how much is this adding to the cost of loans? Bet the salary levels are nowhere near those seen in the Volantary Sector, where everything is not for profit. More likely the salary levels of fat cats in the City of London.

The progress of the Green Deal could end up as a morality tale for modern times.
 
So you take out a very lengthy loan (handy for the creditor based on an APR rate) then pay back the majority of any saving made while the suppliers up the prices of fuel. This seems like a for profit loan aimed at people struggling to get credit to me.

What happens if you take the loan and then want to go off grid?
 
Off-griders can access the Green Deal but they effectively just have a loan agreement with an electricity supplier.
 
Depending on which camp you sit in, The Green Deal, which is nothing more than a finance mechanism, was either created to enable householders to upgrade their homes, making them more energy efficient with no upfront cost, or it was a change in the law that allowed finance to be given to those that could not otherwise afford it.

The latter will give a big boost to the beleaguered banks who now have access to the earnings of the poor whilst at the same time the Government will get some way to achieving various targets for reducing energy and fuel consumption.

My view is the latter but then I am rather cynical :rolleyes2:

Anyway, for the solar guys that think The Green Deal (GD) will give people the means to have solar PV installed, it won't. The GD will only finance the cost up to the level of the estimated savings made by the installation and will not take into account FITs.

[FONT=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]At best, with prices currently around 14p KWh you will be lucky to get savings of £180 per year with a 4KW system. This adds up to about £4500 over 25 years.

Take off the GD set up fees etc for a 25 year loan and that leaves less than £4k, so either the price of a 4KW system is going to fall drastically (again) or these folks will have
[/FONT]
use savings or [FONT=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]take out a second loan in order to finance the installation.

However, I do wonder if some of the larger GD providers will be offering shared ownership PV. You have the loan, they take the FIT for 10+ years.

We will have to wait and see.






[/FONT]
 
I am sick and tired of seeing pv included in the list of things you can have done under Green Deal. It's a vague possibility for reasons that have been flogged to death on the forum and yet someone who should know better tells everyone in our local paper that they can get pv on GD. Ask them about it and they say ahh well in some circumstances, maybe, possibly, if you've a bit of cash to add ...... and this is from a "credible" local source dealing with fuel poverty on behalf of several local authorities. How will customers know who to believe!

But then Barking telling everyone that they could have their front door done didn't help anyone.

Rant over. :veryangry2:
 
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ok, here's a slightly unsober question.

what would happen to the GD equation for solar PV if / when electricity prices rose by 20-25% in 6 - 9 months time?

This is repeatedly the sort of prediction for this year that's coming out of the staff from the main electricity producers when asked unofficially.

I get the distinct impression that DECC are going to get a very nasty surprise this year as the realities of energy supply enforce themselves on their policies.
 
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Even though most don't agree with the green deal and the interest charges, you have to remember that the householder will decide if that's for them. you would be only the Installer thats if if you have got the accreditation to install green deal measures.
 
@Gavin A...As energy prices rise, solar PV will become viable under the GD's Golden Rule, if you take FITs into account it is already viable as long as the system installed is inexpensive (around £8000)

The Government predicted that by 2020 domestic energy prices will double, this will be due to rising fuel costs, energy policy and obligations placed upon the suppliers.

Installation of smart meters is expected to cost £11 billion, the National Grid requires a complete overall because of a lack of investment since privatisation. The figure being banded about here is £125 billion. Nineteen nuclear power stations are/ or were planned, each at a cost of at least £2.2 billion, the energy companies expect the Government to pay for these.

Given the total cost of investment required, over £170 billion, plus the rising fuel costs it is not hard to see why energy prices will rise.

It is estimated that the real cost of supplying energy is over £4000 per household and is heavily reliant on subsidies, the average we pay is currently around £1365.

For individuals I suppose the choice is whether to spend their money on energy or pay interest on a loan, if they choose to spend it on energy and do not reduce consumption, it is predicted that we will have blackouts because the system, as it is, will not be able to cope.

Education is the key and if this had been taught in our schools there would be no need for the Government to be spending £200 million plus in order to promote lending.

As for installers, its up to you to decide whether under the GD there will be a significant return on the cost of accreditation.

Our energy consumption needs to be addressed.
 
I just thought I would point out the life time of solar PV is 23 years form an EPC and green deal WHY dont ask me.

so the longest you could take a green deal plan out for pv would be 23 years.
 
I'm assuming the 25 years relates to the performance warranty that all manufacturers have?
 
https://www.electriciansforums.net/...e-green-deal-for-residential-land-pdf.120334/ found this - I wonder how many landlords will realise they are liable for payments if the property is void? Also interesting to see that from 2016 it's going to be difficult for a landlord to refuse to have Green Deal done on their property. This could cause all sorts of problems if the landlord has a medium term plan to sell in 3 - 5 years.

Interesting times to come.
 

Attachments

The panels will have a 25 year warrante/guarantee.......but not the inverter. So how does that work.
 
The 25 year figure is just the assumed lifetime by DECC for the purposes of defining the maximum period that a Green Deal loan can be taken out over.

The Green Deal requires that there is a 5 year Installation Guarantee - apart from cavity and solid wall insulation which needs 25 years. This requires the GD Provider to rectify all problems with the installation free of charge. (I assume they will cover this in their contract agreement with a Green Deal Installer but maybe they will self-insure this aspect in order to save money).

And there also has to be a Consequential Damage Guarantee for 10 years from the date of installation, covering the building fabric.

Details are here - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2012/9780111525227/schedule/3
 
[TABLE="width: 392"]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl64, width: 331, bgcolor: #707014"]Measure [/TD]
[TD="class: xl65, width: 192, bgcolor: #707014"]Plan Life[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl66, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Cavity walls (all types)[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent"]25*[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Loft insulation (virgin)[/TD]
[TD="class: xl69, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent"]25*[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl66, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Loft insulation (top-up)[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent"]25*[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Solid wall (internal and external)[/TD]
[TD="class: xl69, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent"]25*[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl66, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Draught proofing[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Hot water cylinder insulation[/TD]
[TD="class: xl69, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]10[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl66, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Double glazing[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Boiler upgrade[/TD]
[TD="class: xl69, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl66, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Heating controls[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Mini-wind[/TD]
[TD="class: xl69, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl66, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Photovoltaic panels[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]23[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Solar water heater[/TD]
[TD="class: xl69, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]25[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl66, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Ground source heat pumps[/TD]
[TD="class: xl67, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl68, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Air source heat pumps[/TD]
[TD="class: xl69, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: xl70, width: 331, bgcolor: transparent"]Biomass – wood pellet boiler[/TD]
[TD="class: xl71, width: 192, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]20[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Which DECC document is that from Michael?

The latest DECC document I can find is this - https://www.electriciansforums.net/attachments/informationsupplychainfinal-pdf.120336/


4. In order to provide greater clarity for the supply chain on what the eligible measures are and what key assumptions the assessment tools make, DECC commissioned BRE to produce this document.

5. This document provides further information on:
a. How the Green Deal assessment tools describe the measure;
b. The circumstances in which it will be recommended, including whether it will be recommended in the domestic or non domestic properties (or both);
c. Other information about assumptions including costs, savings and lifetime estimates.

6. DECC does not define eligibility for finance at the product level, however Green Deal Providers, manufacturers, distributors and installers can use this information to help them determine whether products or product–types qualify. The performance assumptions contained in this document are also a helpful baseline for understanding the level savings assumed for the generic measures.

It is dated 28th January 2013.

This is what it says about PV:

GD-PV.png

(@SRE you will also be interested in p27 which shows that a replacement external door may save £6 a year, and could in no way be fully funded by Green Deal)
 

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Its started already.....Large double glazing and PV Solar Companies....are now marketing their GREEN DEAL APPROVED products with INTEREST FREE finance.

So when customers compare Interest Free with 7% Green Deal Finance with annual fees and set up costs ect ect... ....they will forget or miss the fact that these companies prices will have been inflated to cover the Interest Free in the first place...

Green Deal is a government approved, backed, and marketed license to miss-sell....Its a heaven sent opportunity for these companies....and they do not even need to be Green Deal Approved......as their customers will not be using Green Deal Finance..
 
It all depends how it is sold to them...

Also where do DECC get their figures from?
£9000-£14000 for a 2.5KWP system... really....

Thats whats on the EPC certificates at the moment I think. Based on prices that are 18 months out of date
 
17072d1359967238-green-deal-finance-interest-rates-gd-pv.png

So where did DECC conjure these figures from? Looks to me as if they are using annual production figures as electricity saving.

Edited.... looks like a few of us were wondering the same thing.

As it happens, I have a 2.45kw system and although production is 2280Kw per year my electricity saving is about 800Kw. I work from home so all washing cleaning cooking etc is done during the day before the boss comes home so I think I would be hard pressed to get a saving of 1717Kw.
 
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oh dear oh dear. Its based on 100% in house savings and also modest shading for a south facing roof....can they just give the calculations to someone that knows what they are doing please?
 
So, based on their figures for a house to use all the energy produced, then base that on a system with no shading and a 4KWP system with an up to date price, then surly that would meet the golden rule, hmmm, so what do you think will happen here then when the salesmen figure that out, if they haven't already...
 
I think the point is that PV will not need to meet the Golden Rule......because the funding will be the hard sell pv and window company's own in house finance via Barclays or whoever...... which the salesmen will make look a much better deal on paper than the Green Deal....All these companies will need is the Orange Tick on the EPC box...They have no interest in doing Green Deal Plans...It is a means to an end.

And the spin will be...why would you want Green Deal Finance at 7% with an annual fee...when I can offer you unsecured Interest Free Finance...(see earlier post)...

Said it before Green Deal is manna from heaven for these type of companies....because it gives them an amazing government backed opportunity. They will use the Green Deal as a means to sell their own lucrative finance.....and will get many many deals they would not otherwise get...

From door knockers to telecanvassers to living room salesmen phoning their managers to "get your fiance deal approved"....the commissions will come rolling in....

Like an earlier poster said...."I just don't get it"......."But mother...the King is wearing no clothes"
 
I tweeted to Martin Lewis asking why there hadn't been any analysis and a few hours later he tweeted back saying it was on the website now. Here it is, I'm still wading through it but I've found quite a few mistakes with the calculations £500 saving for solid wall insulation, not £400 as from EST and no allowance for comfort use as Ted identified. I was a bit disappointed really but then I thought if this is the best description so far - and I haven't seen anything explained better yet, then no wonder the householder is totally confused and take up is too slow.

Regardless of whether it can work - it's just too complicated & boring!

The Green Deal Mythbuster - energy saving improvements for no extra cost - Money Saving Expert
 
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