12v fire rated downlights in kitchen

[Gaj1]

I have been asked to put some 12v downlights in a kitchen.

I can't get access to the space from above (tiled bathroom/landing floor above).

- how do I know where cables/pipes are (so I don't drill them when making the 60mm hole) ?
- how can I ensure cables (lighting or any other cables present) will not rest on, or close to the hot luminaire once installed and in future.. thinking of thermal damage?

I have installed these previously - but was always able to gain access from above to 'clip and clear'.

Other than making a big hole to poke me head up and clip (would have to be 3 due to the rafter directions) , I cannot see a safe way of using them - may have to suggest using a different lighting system .. ??

Welcome any suggestions ..

 

[gnselectricals]

Can you work out where joists are from other rooms above ? If not I would take down the existing light & use cable rods to measure to nearest joist, from There joist centres are usually 16in apart. You can fish down the.joists between lights bit will have to cut holes either side of the joists to across the joists if that makes sense

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[MarkieSparkie]

Hi Gaj, welcome to the forum.

The easiest way to locate the joists in this situation is usually with a stud locator/metal detector. Once you've found the orientation and centres of the joists, use an inspection camera or illuminated webcam & laptop to assess the situation.
Start at the existing hole, then make small holes at the points where you wish to install your down-lighters and insert your camera. This approach should give you a better idea of cable runs and any obstacles. The only "fly in the ointment" to this is when the voids are filled with thermal insulation. :32:
Remember Part A of the building regulations prohibits the notching of the undersides of joists, so you will have to use an access hole either side of each joist and drill through at the mid point in the appropriate zone to run your loop-ins. A right-angle drill and stubby auger or flat bit help here but not essential if your careful.

 

[nikmet]

Sometimes depending on number of lights etc it is more practical to do whatever holes access you need then arrange ceiling overboard n skim after.........

 

[Des 56]

Another alternative,if there is coving or if coving can be fitted afterv wiring
Remove a small section of plasterboard narrower than the coving and use the safe zone of the wall to cross the joists,fishing your cables in to the light positions

Where you cant determine if the holes for the lights are clear,mark out the position of the hole and shove a long terminal screwdriver on the outline in 4 places and feel your way for obstacles,unless your rich enough to afford one of those camera things

 

[Gaj1]

Thanks for the tips.Finding the rafters is not an issue really.Knowing theres a bothroom above worries me due to the pipes and cables and being able to create the correct pattern and avoid the stuff up there.The kitchen has wall to ceiling mounted cupboards so no coving.Should I not also be clipping the cables I install - which means a big ole to gain access ? - I had a job where I installed downlights and the client wanted to clip himserlf later as he was arranging his boiler - he pulled a cable next to the light and luckily he was still there when the smoking began - i.e. I'd rather ensure ANY cable near my lights will not be able to touch - helps me sleep.Does anyone apply silicone to the seals - some instructions say so?I like the inspection camera - have even suggested this to my mate - a usb webcam for a £10 - maybe more for a thin flexi cam - we all have laptops these days I guess so is quite viable?I'm thinking though this is too much hassle/demolishing to safely install - think they should choose something surface mounted.