Am I being taken for a ride?

[surreygirl]

I had an electrician come to do a safety check at my property that I let out last week and he has recommended that remedial work should be done at a cost of 2,100 pounds, These are:-

Upgrade of eco 7db
Upgrade of 2 x circuits to RCD protection
Install of isolation point for underfloor heating
identification of points where required
Fusing of points
Enclosure of exposed wiring - these are wires that are not in trunking
Investigation of supply wiring and condition of main isolator and repair
Retermination of required points
cable enclosures

Nothing listed but the sub total is 1,750 plus VAT comes to 2,100

Is that a lot! I last had a test done five years ago, true the wire of the economy 7 is in a situation which is not assessable, however he wants to run a wire from it across the lounge and into the kitchen!

But the amount seems excessive and it is through the Agents who manage the property for me.

Any suggestions would be very helpful.

Many thanks Surreygirl

 

[surreygirl]

So first question... is this the electrician who carried out the report and who wants to do a load of work? I'm assuming it is. Why is the agent involved?

We're going to need to see some pictures to advise further really because doing this from afar, blind, is very difficult. Also, is there anything else on the report... if it's paper, print it, take photos and redact identifying details, then post them. An EICR which is what you should have has various sections on it, and it's important we see them all if we are to try and help you further.

I can think of no reason why he would want to link the main consumer unit/fuse box to the economy 7 one... I've actually got a quote to do where some numpty has done this and now the storage heater in my clients bedroom is on permanently.

Exactly so. The main switch for the economy 7 is right in front of the meters and so the wiring goes direct to that so why does he want to do that!

I have no way of uploading that is she problem as I am not at home and am using a note pad etc and I cannot upload I have to go the library to print things off. I know you are doing your best and you are all darlings xx

 

[drzsta]

If you have Internet access you can upload pictures.

 

[SparkyChick]

As @westward10 has suggested, Mr. "Electrician" needs to bring along his copy of the regulations. This should take the form of a big yellow book (roughly A4 in size), and it is titled "British Standard. Requirements for Electrical Installations. IET Wiring Regulations 17th Edition." The standard to which it relates is BS 7671:2008 and it incorporates 4 change sets... Ammendment 1:2011, Corrigendum 2013, Ammendment 2:2013 and Ammendment 3:2015. And for each and every C1, C2 and C3 on the 'report' he should be able to point you to a regulation that is contravened and explain it to you in terms you will understand. If he can't point you to a regulation that is relevant, then as far as I'm aware it should not be listed as a C1, C2 or C3 item. It could be listed on a continuation page, but only items that can be listed as observations with the code C1, C2 or FI can result in an unsatisfactory report. It's also worth noting that an EICR should not concern itself with the building regulations compliance... for example, if at some point in the past someone has notched a joist in the wrong way, this is irrelevant.

I think the best way forward for you is to engage the services of another electrician for this meeting... someone who can quiz the guy, explain things to you if the report writer can't and who can spot if he is just full of BS.

To give better advice than has already been given without knowledge of the installation, a copy of the report and at the very least, pictures of the items to which these things relate is dam near impossible, sorry.

 

[Wilko]

My 20p worth is : I think you have lost confidence in this Electrician and as you are the client, you could / should just finish him up. Plenty more fish in the ocean.

 

[telectrix]

My 20p worth is : I think you have lost confidence in this Electrician and as you are the client, you could / should just finish him up. Plenty more fish in the ocean.

that's why i don't drink water... fish f*ck in it.

 

[surreygirl]

As @westward10 has suggested, Mr. "Electrician" needs to bring along his copy of the regulations. This should take the form of a big yellow book (roughly A4 in size), and it is titled "British Standard. Requirements for Electrical Installations. IET Wiring Regulations 17th Edition." The standard to which it relates is BS 7671:2008 and it incorporates 4 change sets... Ammendment 1:2011, Corrigendum 2013, Ammendment 2:2013 and Ammendment 3:2015. And for each and every C1, C2 and C3 on the 'report' he should be able to point you to a regulation that is contravened and explain it to you in terms you will understand. If he can't point you to a regulation that is relevant, then as far as I'm aware it should not be listed as a C1, C2 or C3 item. It could be listed on a continuation page, but only items that can be listed as observations with the code C1, C2 or FI can result in an unsatisfactory report. It's also worth noting that an EICR should not concern itself with the building regulations compliance... for example, if at some point in the past someone has notched a joist in the wrong way, this is irrelevant.

I think the best way forward for you is to engage the services of another electrician for this meeting... someone who can quiz the guy, explain things to you if the report writer can't and who can spot if he is just full of BS.

To give better advice than has already been given without knowledge of the installation, a copy of the report and at the very least, pictures of the items to which these things relate is dam near impossible, sorry.

I wish I could upload but I do not have a smart phone or camera. I do not have the app to upload from a card.

However I am meeting them tomorrow that is the Agent and the electrician. This is what the Agent has said

I understand that you do not want to do any works outside the flat but I believe that any electric cable coming to the flat are the flats responsibility but I’m sure the electrician will clarify this tomorrow.

Also from what I understand any works done internally will not pass the certificate unless an investigation of the outside cables is carried out.

 

[Wilko]

Can I ask - do you own the building?

 

[Pete999]

I wish I could upload but I do not have a smart phone or camera. I do not have the app to upload from a card.

However I am meeting them tomorrow that is the Agent and the electrician. This is what the Agent has said

I understand that you do not want to do any works outside the flat but I believe that any electric cable coming to the flat are the flats responsibility but I’m sure the electrician will clarify this tomorrow.

Also from what I understand any works done internally will not pass the certificate unless an investigation of the outside cables is carried out.

If the cable feeding the lat belongs to the DNO then that will be their responsibility, beware of the "Electrician and the Agent" being in cahoots with each other. You could find out who is responsible for the cable feeding the flats by contacting you electricity supplier. IF the Sparks and the agent are trying to pull a fast one, I find that repulsive. Don't sign anything until you have contacted the DNO ( electricity supplier) and got a second opinion, good luck for tomorrow.

 

[Toneyz]

If the cable feeding the lat belongs to the DNO then that will be their responsibility, beware of the "Electrician and the Agent" being in cahoots with each other. You could find out who is responsible for the cable feeding the flats by contacting you electricity supplier. IF the Sparks and the agent are trying to pull a fast one, I find that repulsive. Don't sign anything until you have contacted the DNO ( electricity supplier) and got a second opinion, good luck for tomorrow.

He maybe talking about a sub-distribution circuit.

 

[telectrix]

do you have your own meter? if it's a supplier's meter, then anything before that is their responsibility.

if it's a landlord's meter, anything before that is up to him.

having said that, it's the responsibility of the electrician to ckeck the incoming supply and report on it's condition. remedial work would be at the cost tothe supplier or landlord as the case may be.

 

[SparkyChick]

Can I ask, who invited the agent along? You or the electrician?

 

[telectrix]

 

[surreygirl]

If the cable feeding the lat belongs to the DNO then that will be their responsibility, beware of the "Electrician and the Agent" being in cahoots with each other. You could find out who is responsible for the cable feeding the flats by contacting you electricity supplier. IF the Sparks and the agent are trying to pull a fast one, I find that repulsive. Don't sign anything until you have contacted the DNO ( electricity supplier) and got a second opinion, good luck for tomorrow.

Thank you for that. Yes I am sure the Agent and the electrician are in cahoots. It all sounds very dodgy to me. He still hasn't itimized the bill and the agent is reminding me of my responsibilities as a Landlord but I know them already.

 

[surreygirl]

Can I ask, who invited the agent along? You or the electrician?

Not me he invited himself

 

[surreygirl]

He maybe talking about a sub-distribution circuit.

The Agent has told me that the cables feeding the flat are my responsibility! I question that!

 

[surreygirl]

As @westward10 has suggested, Mr. "Electrician" needs to bring along his copy of the regulations. This should take the form of a big yellow book (roughly A4 in size), and it is titled "British Standard. Requirements for Electrical Installations. IET Wiring Regulations 17th Edition." The standard to which it relates is BS 7671:2008 and it incorporates 4 change sets... Ammendment 1:2011, Corrigendum 2013, Ammendment 2:2013 and Ammendment 3:2015. And for each and every C1, C2 and C3 on the 'report' he should be able to point you to a regulation that is contravened and explain it to you in terms you will understand. If he can't point you to a regulation that is relevant, then as far as I'm aware it should not be listed as a C1, C2 or C3 item. It could be listed on a continuation page, but only items that can be listed as observations with the code C1, C2 or FI can result in an unsatisfactory report. It's also worth noting that an EICR should not concern itself with the building regulations compliance... for example, if at some point in the past someone has notched a joist in the wrong way, this is irrelevant.

I think the best way forward for you is to engage the services of another electrician for this meeting... someone who can quiz the guy, explain things to you if the report writer can't and who can spot if he is just full of BS.

To give better advice than has already been given without knowledge of the installation, a copy of the report and at the very least, pictures of the items to which these things relate is dam near impossible, sorry.

I agree that is what I am going to do

 

[surreygirl]

As @westward10 has suggested, Mr. "Electrician" needs to bring along his copy of the regulations. This should take the form of a big yellow book (roughly A4 in size), and it is titled "British Standard. Requirements for Electrical Installations. IET Wiring Regulations 17th Edition." The standard to which it relates is BS 7671:2008 and it incorporates 4 change sets... Ammendment 1:2011, Corrigendum 2013, Ammendment 2:2013 and Ammendment 3:2015. And for each and every C1, C2 and C3 on the 'report' he should be able to point you to a regulation that is contravened and explain it to you in terms you will understand. If he can't point you to a regulation that is relevant, then as far as I'm aware it should not be listed as a C1, C2 or C3 item. It could be listed on a continuation page, but only items that can be listed as observations with the code C1, C2 or FI can result in an unsatisfactory report. It's also worth noting that an EICR should not concern itself with the building regulations compliance... for example, if at some point in the past someone has notched a joist in the wrong way, this is irrelevant.

I think the best way forward for you is to engage the services of another electrician for this meeting... someone who can quiz the guy, explain things to you if the report writer can't and who can spot if he is just full of BS.

To give better advice than has already been given without knowledge of the installation, a copy of the report and at the very least, pictures of the items to which these things relate is dam near impossible, sorry.

I agree that is what I am going to do

do you have your own meter? if it's a supplier's meter, then anything before that is their responsibility.

if it's a landlord's meter, anything before that is up to him.

having said that, it's the responsibility of the electrician to ckeck the incoming supply and report on it's condition. remedial work would be at the cost tothe supplier or landlord as the case may be.

Yes I so have my own meter. I am not sure what cables he is talking about to be honest!

 

[SparkyChick]

If you were near me I'd come along for a cup of coffee, armed with the regulations and my crowbar to intimidate quiz the guy.

 

[surreygirl]

do you have your own meter? if it's a supplier's meter, then anything before that is their responsibility.

if it's a landlord's meter, anything before that is up to him.

having said that, it's the responsibility of the electrician to ckeck the incoming supply and report on it's condition. remedial work would be at the cost tothe supplier or landlord as the case may be.

I am the Landlord my flat has a tenant in it and I asked for a safety certificate. I have always employed an electrician myself but I left it to the Agent this time and 2100 pounds for work and also the likely hood of more. The electrician said to me that not to worry it comes out of the rent! that is why he is not worried I think. Also when I told him I found that a lot of money I happen to say I didn't like the lights so he told me he could change them for me!! It is only a studio flat. I could have the whole place rewired for that. I had rewired 10 years ago.

 

[surreygirl]

If you were near me I'd come along for a cup of coffee, armed with the regulations and my crowbar to intimidate quiz the guy.

Thank you it is nice to have people on my side I feel well and truly set up!

 

[surreygirl]

do you have your own meter? if it's a supplier's meter, then anything before that is their responsibility.

if it's a landlord's meter, anything before that is up to him.

having said that, it's the responsibility of the electrician to ckeck the incoming supply and report on it's condition. remedial work would be at the cost tothe supplier or landlord as the case may be.

OK that is good to know thank you

 

[surreygirl]

Can I ask - do you own the building?

I am a leaseholder but we also own the freehold through a company. l let it out it is my pension It is only a studio flat.

 

[surreygirl]

do you have your own meter? if it's a supplier's meter, then anything before that is their responsibility.

if it's a landlord's meter, anything before that is up to him.

having said that, it's the responsibility of the electrician to ckeck the incoming supply and report on it's condition. remedial work would be at the cost tothe supplier or landlord as the case may be.

OK I take that on board

 

[surreygirl]

As @westward10 has suggested, Mr. "Electrician" needs to bring along his copy of the regulations. This should take the form of a big yellow book (roughly A4 in size), and it is titled "British Standard. Requirements for Electrical Installations. IET Wiring Regulations 17th Edition." The standard to which it relates is BS 7671:2008 and it incorporates 4 change sets... Ammendment 1:2011, Corrigendum 2013, Ammendment 2:2013 and Ammendment 3:2015. And for each and every C1, C2 and C3 on the 'report' he should be able to point you to a regulation that is contravened and explain it to you in terms you will understand. If he can't point you to a regulation that is relevant, then as far as I'm aware it should not be listed as a C1, C2 or C3 item. It could be listed on a continuation page, but only items that can be listed as observations with the code C1, C2 or FI can result in an unsatisfactory report. It's also worth noting that an EICR should not concern itself with the building regulations compliance... for example, if at some point in the past someone has notched a joist in the wrong way, this is irrelevant.

I think the best way forward for you is to engage the services of another electrician for this meeting... someone who can quiz the guy, explain things to you if the report writer can't and who can spot if he is just full of BS.

To give better advice than has already been given without knowledge of the installation, a copy of the report and at the very least, pictures of the items to which these things relate is dam near impossible, sorry.

When I get home I can do that and I will upload everything and also take photographs and upload them. I do not have the facilities here

 

[MJPD29]

What is fusing of points? May as well say I'm going to fix that thing, you know that thing

 

[Phil Thompson]

By chance is he running an earth in from the E7 Board to the MET?

Tired after long day, so only briefly speed read the last 4 pages, but that's what I'm thinking is happening if I was to hazard a guess lol

 

[David M]

just a bit windy. enough to make me wind the garden parasols down.

I first read this "wind the garden parasols down" as in "wind" - weather, breeze... because of the context of the subject "windy".
oh... the oddities of the English language and dual purpose words!

 

[surreygirl]

By chance is he running an earth in from the E7 Board to the MET?

Tired after long day, so only briefly speed read the last 4 pages, but that's what I'm thinking is happening if I was to hazard a guess lol

He is running the cable from the main meter and the economy 7 meter to the meter in the kitchen. He is running it through the lounge because he says he cannot get to the cable running from the main metre because it is situated in an area he cannot get to and for that reason he cannot give a certificate if he cannot check what state the cable is in. So in one way he is correct although the cost is massive 2,100 pounds. He is also enclosing the grey cables in trunking and changing the fuses of the underfloor heating as he says they are the wrong ones!

 

[Pete999]

He is running the cable from the main meter and the economy 7 meter to the meter in the kitchen. He is running it through the lounge because he says he cannot get to the cable running from the main metre because it is situated in an area he cannot get to and for that reason he cannot give a certificate if he cannot check what state the cable is in. So in one way he is correct although the cost is massive 2,100 pounds. He is also enclosing the grey cables in trunking and changing the fuses of the underfloor heating as he says they are the wrong ones!

I get the impression that this bloke is tryng it on surreygirl, watch yourself with this one, but without actual eyes on it is very difficult to be 100% sure, have you checked his credentials?

 

[telectrix]

He is running the cable from the main meter and the economy 7 meter to the meter in the kitchen. He is running it through the lounge because he says he cannot get to the cable running from the main metre because it is situated in an area he cannot get to and for that reason he cannot give a certificate if he cannot check what state the cable is in. So in one way he is correct although the cost is massive 2,100 pounds. He is also enclosing the grey cables in trunking and changing the fuses of the underfloor heating as he says they are the wrong ones!

a lot of that looks, sounds , and smells of Bullsh!t. it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck..........