Class I Staircase

[ForkEnigma]

Hi guys / girls

Doing an EICR, where the communial staircase lighting in a public building has Class I fittings installed. The fittings are in reach of touch. Said circuit is on a MCB. Thoughts are to code it C3, with a view to installing a protective device with RCD incorporated. (RCBO)

Any thoughts?

 

[telectrix]

as long as they are earthed, it's debatable as to whether a code should be applied.

 

[davesparks]

Assuming they are earthed and have suitable Zs then no code.

 

[ForkEnigma]

Ah assumption. TBH there is quite a few, dont have time to check everyone for an earth, with ot without an R2 lead. Maybe an FI would be better code.
Cheers guys

 

[westward10]

I have no idea why a Class I fitting which is earthed and fulfils ADS as required by BS7671 needs Coding.

 

[Wilko]

TBH there is quite a few, dont have time to check everyone for an earth ...

Hi - for my 20p, each fitting should be confirmed for connection. You may have to ask for more time but I think that’s the job that’s needed.

 

[ForkEnigma]

To inspect the earthing at every fitting would be very time consuming. So for me its C3 with FI, up to client to advise. Hate to walk away and joe public got a shock.
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Hi - for my 20p, each fitting should be confirmed for connection. You may have to ask for more time but I think that’s the job that’s needed.

In excess of 70 fittings to check. Quite costly, where as I can change protective device to RCBO.

 

[westward10]

Fitting an rcbo does not negate the fact the fittings must be earthed. The general requirement is to carry out an earth fault loop impedance test at the extremity of a radial circuit.

 

[ForkEnigma]

Fitting an rcbo does not negate the fact the fittings must be earthed. The general requirement is to carry out an earth fault loop impedance test at the extremity of a radial circuit.

Indeed sir, and the the Zs will be obtained. The circuit is in singles via metail conduit buried in wall. the singles go into connector blocks, then off to feed the light, and earth the fitting. Sorry for not making that clear earlier.
Well its Monday morning, ive had my coffee, and now decided the C3 is a bit harsh, so will just FI it.

 

[westward10]

I have no idea why you are Coding it.

 

[loz2754]

Indeed sir, and the the Zs will be obtained. The circuit is in singles via metail conduit buried in wall. the singles go into connector blocks, then off to feed the light, and earth the fitting. Sorry for not making that clear earlier.
Well its Monday morning, ive had my coffee, and now decided the C3 is a bit harsh, so will just FI it.

FI is harsher than C3, as it means the report is unsatisfactory.
If the Zs reading is good, and the lights are suitable for the environment and undamaged, then it's a pass from me.
The regulations do not require an RCD for lighting circuits in general, with the exception of special locations like bathrooms, swimming pools and the like. Also, for all lighting circuits in a dwelling, which this staircase is not.

 

[westward10]

I believe he is going to fit an rcbo in case some are not earthed, not that doing this would solve the problem.

 

[loz2754]

I believe he is going to fit an rcbo in case some are not earthed, not that doing this would solve the problem.

Indeed this would not solve the problem.
I would suggest taking off a number of lights as a sample, giving a thorough inspection to each one and an R1+R2 or Zs test at each one. If all test fine, including the last one at the end of the line, then one can make the assumption that all are fine. If, on the other hand, any of the results taken from this sample are NOT fine, then the sample should be extended to 100 percent of the lights.
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To inspect the earthing at every fitting would be very time consuming. So for me its C3 with FI, up to client to advise. Hate to walk away and joe public got a shock.
[automerge]1597654315[/automerge]

In excess of 70 fittings to check. Quite costly, where as I can change protective device to RCBO.

Seems like a lot of lights on this one circuit.

 

[davesparks]

Ah assumption. TBH there is quite a few, dont have time to check everyone for an earth, with ot without an R2 lead. Maybe an FI would be better code.
Cheers guys

No code, there is nothing wrong with class 1 light fittings
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Indeed sir, and the the Zs will be obtained. The circuit is in singles via metail conduit buried in wall. the singles go into connector blocks, then off to feed the light, and earth the fitting. Sorry for not making that clear earlier.
Well its Monday morning, ive had my coffee, and now decided the C3 is a bit harsh, so will just FI it.

Nonsense, what further investigation is required?
Check Zs and inspect a random sample of fittings, if they are connected to earth correctly then there is nothing to be coded.
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To inspect the earthing at every fitting would be very time consuming. So for me its C3 with FI, up to client to advise. Hate to walk away and joe public got a shock.
[automerge]1597654315[/automerge]

In excess of 70 fittings to check. Quite costly, where as I can change protective device to RCBO.

If the fittings are not earthed then fitting an RCBO won't fix the problem.

Even if you fit an RCBO 'Joe public' can still receive a shock if a fault occurs, RCBO's don't prevent elwctruc shocks from happening, they just detect a shock which is happening and disconnect before it becomes lethal for an average healthy person.

 

[UNG]

as long as they are earthed, it's debatable as to whether a code should be applied.

Not sure there is anything to debate

 

[UNG]

I'm wondering what limitations have been agreed with the client "can't test all the stairwell fittings because there are too many" doesn't sound like a reasonable limitation to me and using the FI code for something that is clearly accessible to inspect and test isn't good practice IMO

 

[littlespark]

How long is your trailing lead?

will it reach between adjacent fittings.
Don’t have to remove them, etc.... just off any metallic part they should be earthed.

what is the wiring system? Exposed metal conduit or MICC?

 

[MJPD29]

Indeed sir, and the the Zs will be obtained. The circuit is in singles via metail conduit buried in wall. the singles go into connector blocks, then off to feed the light, and earth the fitting. Sorry for not making that clear earlier.
Well its Monday morning, ive had my coffee, and now decided the C3 is a bit harsh, so will just FI it.

Why FI? Why anything? If the zs meets disconnection time and earth has been confirmed then to me it doenst need to be recorded whatsoever. You can't just fit an RCBO and claim the it negates the need for an earth, it doesnt. You can't just code something because you can't be bothered checking if it has an earth. Even the idea of it screams incompetence. To me, its a case of you do your job properly or whats the point in doing it at all.

 

[ForkEnigma]

I'm wondering what limitations have been agreed with the client "can't test all the stairwell fittings because there are too many" doesn't sound like a reasonable limitation to me and using the FI code for something that is clearly accessible to inspect and test isn't good practice IMO

How long is your trailing lead?

will it reach between adjacent fittings.
Don’t have to remove them, etc.... just off any metallic part they should be earthed.

what is the wiring system? Exposed metal conduit or MICC?

Yeah ive got a 50m R2 lead, and have indeed been using this to get readings to known earths. My suspicions were correct in that some fittings were not earthed. Although Zs was obtained from the end of lines. I was not happy with earths being blocked, then fly lead off to the fittings. So now every fitting has been checked, and the ones which had lost the earth have been fixed. All agreed with client for extra cost. So all in all a good result.
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Thanks for your help guys, some great answers today.

 

[DPG]

Good result.

Words.

 

[ForkEnigma]

My R2 kit

 

[telectrix]

My R2 kit View attachment 60214View attachment 60214

wow !. mine is a £2 washing line (centre steel core) with 2 croc clips bodged on the ends. have to remember to knock 2.7 ohms off of the reading to allow for the resistance of the steel core.

 

[davesparks]

What on earth is unique and patented about a cable drum?

 

[ForkEnigma]

What on earth is unique and patented about a cable drum?

Tell you something, reeling this beaut in and out, sure beats a cable drum! X

 

[Welchyboy1]

is this even a worthwhile topic of discussion?

Im too busy to do the testing so I will bang it on an rcbo just in case(at customers expense)

Surely your eicr limitations box will detail the extent of the sampling you will be carrying out?

Thats what its there for