Earthing mat is making me ill !

[nicebutdim]

Have you either done the maths or tried this as a practical experiment?
I have done both, Xc is about 6MΩ worst case. It's not exactly what I would call a shock.

Under less than ideal physical conditions, could it lead to unpleasant sensations?


Asking for a friend...

 

[Lucien Nunes]

If I stand on an insulating surface and firmly hold a wire live at 230V I can't feel anything. If I brush the back of my fingers against a plate live at 230V, I can feel as a vibration the muscular response to the stimulation caused by the few tens of microamps of capacitive leakage.

 

[James]

If I stand on an insulating surface and firmly hold a wire live at 230V I can't feel anything. If I brush the back of my fingers against a plate live at 230V, I can feel as a vibration the muscular response to the stimulation caused by the few tens of microamps of capacitive leakage.

Now there’s an experiment that needs a do not try at home warning!

 

[sunnyod]

It's slow and difficult to critique a video like that properly, based as it is on personal narrative, because it is deliberately made so that things are not presented as outright lies, just misleading and loaded. It would take me many hours to drill down and locate specific issues with it and I spent too much time on this already - I have electrical things to do!

As an example, look at the first 30 seconds. The guy says he grew up among native American people, and that one of them told him to take his shoes off because they would make him sick, and that at the time he didn't know why that would be. These are presented as though they are significant facts, and there is no reason to doubt them as facts. However, he does not say that the shoes made him sick, or that the person who told him had reliable evidence that they would make him sick, or that if they did make him sick, it was due to an electrical phenomenon.

This narrative is there to plant a seed of an idea, to get your curiosity aroused, so that when the link between sickness and grounding and shoes is later broached, you recall those 'wise words' and make a connection by yourself regardless of whether there is one or not. You infer that the native American knew through folklore that insulative shoes make you sick and now you seem to have a scientific reason for it, and you have used your powers of analysis to corroborate two independent sources to improve the reliability of your data. But actually, it's only one source, the guy who wants to promote his views on grounding.

"In simple terms, grounding is literally putting your bare feet on the ground."
Simple, but in an electrical context, not correct.

"Mother Earth is endowed with electrons." True, but misleading, as all neutral matter is endowed with electrons, including synthetic rubber shoes, the air, your body.

"These electrons are literally absorbed through your feet." Borderline false. Some exchange of electrons might occur but there is no net flow of electrons without electric current, and he does not state that they are absorbed through your feet only if you connect yourself to a source of a potential difference to drive the electron drift against the resistance.

"It's like taking handfuls of antioxidants." False. Antioxidants can participate in chemical reactions in which electrons are exchanged, but the mere presence of electrons does not cause the same chemical reactions.

I have to get on with some work now...

Thanks for breaking down some of the myths in the video, bud. Really appreciated and I was able to understand a lot of it. I'm not sure what to believe at this stage and am open to either outcome. Obviously i'm hoping that it works however as I'd like to be able to draw a line under some of my health issues

I've still not got the final setup as the earthing rods (5mm x 300mm) won't arrive until tomorrow. I did receive some cabling though, I went with the most modest speaker wire I could (13 strand 0.5mm), hopefully this should limit the danger?

I've connected the speaker wire with the same skewer I used last night and have tested for continuity. There is still 100 megohm resistance as per the original spec of the cable that came with the mat. The speaker wire is about 12m in length and is the final cabling I will be using when the steel rods arrive so it shouldn't differ much if at all in terms of electrical function (other than the old bits of meat stuck to the skewer adding resistance)

Please give feedback on this setup. I'm not married to it as it was very cheap and can easily be replaced. Assuming grounding works for me, I'll be happy to make any upgrades

FYI. I have been using the mat in my study all day today. It's been connected using the original cable directly to the skewer as the distance to the garden is short enough not to need an extension. No connection to the mains at all. So far it's been good. No discomfort or 'buzzing' that I felt before. I have also felt a decent level of 'awakeness' and considering the lacklustre sleep i've been getting last few nights I'm doing better than i'd expect. I've gotten a good chunk of work done too and have been focussed all day.

Putting things into perspective though, It could easily be psychosomatic. If that's the case I will probably know for sure after at least a week of testing. The promoters of this 'tech' say that 30m of grounding per day is a must and I will be getting on average 6-7 hours grounded in bed and 8 hours at my desk each day, so any benefits should be very noticeable

The proof is in the pudding and that 'test' for me is:
1. Being able to get a FULL nights sleep
2. Feeling more rested than I normally do
3. Having less 'brain fog' the next day due to the rest
4. Managing stress better (I'm a trader by trade so am used to a good amount of stress)
5. Any other benefits are icing on the cake at this stage

Again, thanks to the group and especially to you, Lucien. You're a patient being and I appreciate your time. I'll update you all tomorrow if there's anything of significance to talk about... Good evening all

 

[NorthernLad]

sometimes i fall asleep with my under electric blanket on with no problems (other than getting a bit hot)

This reminds me that occasionaly my wife and I get a tingle between us when we touch. (I know there will be comments)
Our electric blanket is controlled seperately, she being on high setting, me being medium, and if we happen to gently brush against each other we feel the tingle.
I dont pretend to understand the reason, but are we safe to indulge in this behaviour?

 

[Vortigern]

Thinking the above through a little; You bought a product to stop making you feel unwell or feel better. The product is making you ill. Therefore product does not deliver the promised benefits. Why are you still using it? Your dabbling with meters and wires is an attempt to fix the product that is apparently causing you harm.

Moving on, what kind of materials do you wear? What kind of bedding materials do you sleep on/in? I ask as nowadays most peoples clothes are made of recycled plastic bottles they put out for free each week and buy them back at tescos as highly expensive plastic clothes. Also bedding is invariably plastic of some kind. Maybe between your nylon carpets, plastic hoodies, pants, socks, trousers and T shirt and bed and carpet with your plastic toothbrush you are in effect a Van der graaf generator. The shocks in bed are you generating megawatts of static electricity. Perhaps conjugal relations might provide more of a van der graaf effect, seriously!
Anyway enough of that. I am a trained acupuncturist (non practicing) it is held in this ancient technique there are meridians points in the feet that benefit greatly from making direct contact with the earth for an hour or two each day. In the book of Abramelin he recommends walking on the earth for a couple of hours at the point of your birth location. There are stranger things than in your or mine philosophy! I haven't mentioned the acupuncture before as certain members on here might treat me unkindly. I trained in Leamington Spa college of traditional chinese acupuncture under Professor Worsley, but that was a another lifetime.

 

[loz2754]

Thinking the above through a little; You bought a product to stop making you feel unwell or feel better. The product is making you ill. Therefore product does not deliver the promised benefits. Why are you still using it? Your dabbling with meters and wires is an attempt to fix the product that is apparently causing you harm.

Moving on, what kind of materials do you wear? What kind of bedding materials do you sleep on/in? I ask as nowadays most peoples clothes are made of recycled plastic bottles they put out for free each week and buy them back at tescos as highly expensive plastic clothes. Also bedding is invariably plastic of some kind. Maybe between your nylon carpets, plastic hoodies, pants, socks, trousers and T shirt and bed and carpet with your plastic toothbrush you are in effect a Van der graaf generator. The shocks in bed are you generating megawatts of static electricity. Perhaps conjugal relations might provide more of a van der graaf effect, seriously!
Anyway enough of that. I am a trained acupuncturist (non practicing) it is held in this ancient technique there are meridians points in the feet that benefit greatly from making direct contact with the earth for an hour or two each day. In the book of Abramelin he recommends walking on the earth for a couple of hours at the point of your birth location. There are stranger things than in your or mine philosophy! I haven't mentioned the acupuncture before as certain members on here might treat me unkindly. I trained in Leamington Spa college of traditional chinese acupuncture under Professor Worsley, but that was a another lifetime.

Interesting @Vortigern. I have had acupuncture treatment, also reflexology and kinesiology. All of which are based on principles based outside of mainstream science. I'm of the opinion that the 2 are not mutually exclusive, and each has a place, sometimes working in tandem.

 

[timhoward]

Maybe between your nylon carpets, plastic hoodies, pants, socks, trousers and T shirt and bed and carpet with your plastic toothbrush you are in effect a Van der graaf generator

Thank you for making me laugh out loud for almost a minute - that was the exact tonic I needed this morning.

 

[Darkwood]

I believe what is occurring here with the OP and improvements to health, sleep etc when 'grounded' are nothing more than a placebo effect, this is why my critique on the posted video link highlighted the fact that the experiments lacked any form of control sample thus effectively making them void.

The question we thus need to ask here is, if the outcome is positive and favourable to the OP's health then is it such a bad thing even if it is shown there is nothing in this grounding claim, personally I think not unless there is a safety issue in doing this or a financial burden, if this is simply is a cost to the OP we also have to way up if it is worth it.
I would in all honesty prefer to be fully open here and explain that there is no real solid evidence of 'grounding' working, there is no electrical theory I can apply to the claims made and no medical support either, the effects thus are in my opinion based on the placebo effect, his own psychological response to the believe in the system, I believe that demonstrating this could be a positive thing as it would in fact show many of the symptoms the OP has can be controlled in other ways, what it shows is many of this symptoms have no physical foundation and simply are psychologically based and thus require a total new approach to reducing or stopping them. (disclaimer - only my opinion not a professional psychological diagnosis)

I am of a scientific mindset and a logical approach and nothing presented or what I can find in research on this remotely convinces me there is anything in these grounding claims, in fact I am convinced it is more a hoax than anything else because of the many deliberate attempts to package what are factual points into a very misleading context, attempts to show relationship between other earthing systems in electrical circuits which are not relevant and work in a very different way and then self confessed claims of positive results from teams of voices who you find have vested interests in the claims been believed..
It is not a knee-jerk reaction here to dismiss this because it sounds crazy but the fact I spent a bit of time to see what was been claimed and how they demonstrated and tried to prove such claims, the fact that many lines in my opinion had been crossed to mislead and convince the viewer it was real kind of sealed the deal that it is a total hoax, one does not need to go to such lengths if there was something genuine in this.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Onwards.

L.K. "Grounding means connecting to the earth to support the specific function of the organs of your body. It supports the body as a whole but it specifically supports organ systems down to the tissues and the cellular function of the entire body"

Presented as a definition, but meaningless. No definition of 'support' is given nor is there a generally recognised mechanism, by which connecting to the earth 'supports' functions of organs and cells, that the speaker is referencing implicitly.

C.O. "In 1960 we invented synthetic materials."

False. Viscose 1905; Nylon 1930s; Terylene 1940s; etc.

L.K. "It's the most common-sense thing that we are organsims that live and grow and depend entirely on the Earth while we're alive, and yet we have completely isolated ourselves from it. We're so disconnected that it becomes this weird thing if we actually slip our shoes off."

Conflation of different ideas. We depend on the Earth for many resources and are not isolated from it with regard to those resources. Wearing insulative footwear isolates us electrically from the mass of earth, but electrical connection to the mass of earth is not one of the resources on which we are proven to depend. Therefore that form of 'disconnection' may be inconsequential. Not everyone finds it weird to take their shoes off.

C.O. [Holding and indicating a trainer] "This was the single thing that happened, that probably caused the proliferation of inflammation-related health disorders, far and above anything else."

Presented as a statement, but with the qualifier 'probably' and no attribution or reference to any study to justify the statement.

"S. S. [emphatically] "This is so incredible, this is Nobel Prize material."

Does not say what, specifically, is 'Nobel Prize material.' Viewers might reasonably infer that it is the connection between insulative footwear and a supposed proliferation of inflammation-related health disorders, metioned a few seconds earlier by C.O. Seems to be intended to lend 'independent' support to amplify the significance of the suggestion made by C.O.


There, two minutes. More later.

 

[sunnyod]

Thinking the above through a little; You bought a product to stop making you feel unwell or feel better. The product is making you ill. Therefore product does not deliver the promised benefits. Why are you still using it? Your dabbling with meters and wires is an attempt to fix the product that is apparently causing you harm.

Moving on, what kind of materials do you wear? What kind of bedding materials do you sleep on/in? I ask as nowadays most peoples clothes are made of recycled plastic bottles they put out for free each week and buy them back at tescos as highly expensive plastic clothes. Also bedding is invariably plastic of some kind. Maybe between your nylon carpets, plastic hoodies, pants, socks, trousers and T shirt and bed and carpet with your plastic toothbrush you are in effect a Van der graaf generator. The shocks in bed are you generating megawatts of static electricity. Perhaps conjugal relations might provide more of a van der graaf effect, seriously!
Anyway enough of that. I am a trained acupuncturist (non practicing) it is held in this ancient technique there are meridians points in the feet that benefit greatly from making direct contact with the earth for an hour or two each day. In the book of Abramelin he recommends walking on the earth for a couple of hours at the point of your birth location. There are stranger things than in your or mine philosophy! I haven't mentioned the acupuncture before as certain members on here might treat me unkindly. I trained in Leamington Spa college of traditional chinese acupuncture under Professor Worsley, but that was a another lifetime.

Awesome, a fellow tinfoiler lol I'm into all kinds of stuff, you're very much not alone. It takes courage to come somewhere like this and expose yourself, but it helps if you don't know anyone (much like I didn't)! Accupuncture and meridians are 100% a thing, shame big pharma can't make money from it and promote it instead of rubbishing through their corrupt media shills. God speed to you and thanks for the support.

FYI. I Sleep in boxers only and yes I hear you about the static collection through clothes, etc. Before I came across this idea of grounding (about 2 months ago) I knew very little on the subject of bodily electricity. I knew about frequencies, vibration, chakras, etc. but didn't know the concept of the human body being able to store positive charge and the need to discharge it (much like a cloud and lightning).

I'm one sleep in so far. I didn't get a full nights sleep (about 6 hours) but it's increased from the night before and also the quality has improved. I'm thinking clearer too... The static I was getting in bed when I plugged the mat into the mains is GONE! Go figure. However, there is a very distinct tingling at the points of contact with the mat, it feels nice and not like I'm being micro-shocked. I'm also perceiving a sense of sinking into the mat and I was able to sleep a lot longer on my back last night, where normally I get unfomfortable and have to move onto my side to get to sleep. Not sure what all this means, but quality of sleep has improved.

So far so good!

 

[sunnyod]

I believe what is occurring here with the OP and improvements to health, sleep etc when 'grounded' are nothing more than a placebo effect, this is why my critique on the posted video link highlighted the fact that the experiments lacked any form of control sample thus effectively making them void.

The question we thus need to ask here is, if the outcome is positive and favourable to the OP's health then is it such a bad thing even if it is shown there is nothing in this grounding claim, personally I think not unless there is a safety issue in doing this or a financial burden, if this is simply is a cost to the OP we also have to way up if it is worth it.
I would in all honesty prefer to be fully open here and explain that there is no real solid evidence of 'grounding' working, there is no electrical theory I can apply to the claims made and no medical support either, the effects thus are in my opinion based on the placebo effect, his own psychological response to the believe in the system, I believe that demonstrating this could be a positive thing as it would in fact show many of the symptoms the OP has can be controlled in other ways, what it shows is many of this symptoms have no physical foundation and simply are psychologically based and thus require a total new approach to reducing or stopping them. (disclaimer - only my opinion not a professional psychological diagnosis)

I am of a scientific mindset and a logical approach and nothing presented or what I can find in research on this remotely convinces me there is anything in these grounding claims, in fact I am convinced it is more a hoax than anything else because of the many deliberate attempts to package what are factual points into a very misleading context, attempts to show relationship between other earthing systems in electrical circuits which are not relevant and work in a very different way and then self confessed claims of positive results from teams of voices who you find have vested interests in the claims been believed..
It is not a knee-jerk reaction here to dismiss this because it sounds crazy but the fact I spent a bit of time to see what was been claimed and how they demonstrated and tried to prove such claims, the fact that many lines in my opinion had been crossed to mislead and convince the viewer it was real kind of sealed the deal that it is a total hoax, one does not need to go to such lengths if there was something genuine in this.

Take a look at this. There were 21 peer reviewed studies a couple years back, probably more now. It's been proved to decrease inflammation (a major if not THE cause of most diseases) The effects of grounding (earthing) on inflammation, the immune response, wound healing, and prevention and treatment of chronic inflammatory and autoimmune diseases - PubMed - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25848315/

 

[Mike Johnson]

@Vortigern I poo pooped acupuncture for most of my life until one of my cats developed Arthritis, the vet recommended acupuncture and my wife agreed for them to try, me still sceptical, on arrival home from her first treatment the cat ran up the stairs to her basket for the first time in months, now as far as I know, even though I think they are intelligent, I don't think they know about the placebo effect, I am now more enlightened.

 

[Deleted account]

I think if I was that cat I’d run upstairs after being stabbed and prodded just to prove there is nothing wrong in the hope I don’t have to go back and get stabbed again. Cats are=smarter than you think.

 

[Darkwood]

@sunnyod

It is nice to see someone deliver on information and support on why they believe what they do, in looking at the links however...

Reading the study I find it still lacks in a control standard I would believe would be needed to gather any real results that are reliable...

-No of participants 8

-No of control groups 2

-Peer review time limit of 10 business days

-Peer review is classed as single blind IE we have no information on the reviewers or their impartiality here or their understanding of the subject they are reviewing, it is very easy to present a paper that is very convincing if there is a general lack of understanding on the subject matter by the reader,

-The company from which these papers were passed to for peer review also have a chequered history, in 2013 a sting was set up with deliberate false and intentionally flawed paper was submitted to them which they failed to realise and subsequently published it, this actually got their membership of the OASPA terminated and it wasn't for a couple more yrs until they provided proof that they had taken adequate steps to stop this happening again and did they get their membership reestablished, I also add that this company also is a small entity in the scope of things having only approx 50 employees, now this on its own does not mean the review and publication of 'grounding' is in anyway a hoax or scam but all together as a combined list as above it does raise some serious questions on the whole subject matter.

What I would like to see is these papers been presented to larger organisations who allow extensive peer review periods to allow repeat experimentation and confirmation of results, also open peer identity so we have full transparency of reviewers, their field of knowledge and their credibility.

Any credible study of this would be done with hundreds if not thousands of subjects with a 3 point control method to rule out coincidence or subconscious influence that could easily occur in the above study.

What needs to be realised is that this kind of market place is worth millions and sometimes billions to certain people, groups and companies and it is not unheard of to see orchestrated scams been pulled, the recent incident with one of the world's most respected medical journal publishers Lancet and the New England Medical Journal regarding a study on hydroxychloroquine use for treatment of covid 19 hit the world last year as both groups retracted the papers and demonstrates the lengths some people go to for recognition, financial support or political motivation.

 

[static zap]

Now there’s an experiment that needs a do not try at home warning!

Alternatively ,get yourself well insulated and gently touch a cheap metal cased touch dimmer lamp. Similar tingle with a little less risk !

 

[static zap]

I will come clean and admit -to being extra nervy in these Covid times.
Sniffing a roll of cheap new carpet , fitted in a friends flat .
Remembering USA RVs fitted out in Formaldehyde "cheap carpeting..."

( then I realised I was heading for that "looked it up on the Internet"
..nearly as good as checking the BAD reviews ...

My long time ago event ..was a Rash from a white settee ...

.. I'm beginning to get nervous and flighty ..like a prey animal ..

Rather than that Dominant Species .. armed with a flame thrower !
..Killing weeds in the garden. Stay positive -Assertive ..

 

[sunnyod]

@sunnyod

It is nice to see someone deliver on information and support on why they believe what they do, in looking at the links however...

Reading the study I find it still lacks in a control standard I would believe would be needed to gather any real results that are reliable...

-No of participants 8

-No of control groups 2

-Peer review time limit of 10 business days

-Peer review is classed as single blind IE we have no information on the reviewers or their impartiality here or their understanding of the subject they are reviewing, it is very easy to present a paper that is very convincing if there is a general lack of understanding on the subject matter by the reader,

-The company from which these papers were passed to for peer review also have a chequered history, in 2013 a sting was set up with deliberate false and intentionally flawed paper was submitted to them which they failed to realise and subsequently published it, this actually got their membership of the OASPA terminated and it wasn't for a couple more yrs until they provided proof that they had taken adequate steps to stop this happening again did they get their membership reestablished, I also add that this company also is a small entity in the scope of things having only approx 50 employees, now this on its own does not mean the review and publication of 'grounding' is in anyway a hoax or scam but all together as a combined list as above it does raise some serious questions on the whole subject matter.

What I would like to see is these papers been presented to larger organisations who allow extensive peer review periods to allow repeat experimentation and confirmation of results, also open peer identity so we have full transparency of reviewers, their field of knowledge and their credibility.

Any credible study of this would be done with hundreds if not thousands of subjects with a 3 point control method to rule out coincidence or subconscious influence that could easily occur in the above study.

What needs to be realised is that this kind of market place is worth millions and sometimes billions to certain people, groups and companies and it is not unheard of to see orchestrated scams been pulled, the recent incident with one of the world's most respected medical journal publishers Lancet and the New England Medical Journal regarding a study on hydroxychloroquine use for treatment of covid 19 hit the world last year as both groups retracted the papers and demonstrates the lengths some people go to for recognition, financial support or political motivation.

Amazing research done there bud. Thank you! I hear ya, yes it's very possible that this is a scam. It may seem to most like it's not worth much, but I can tell you a lot of people take credence with this stuff and it's easily worth millions. I didn't know that their membership at OASPA was terminated. I would have assumed they did their due diligence, but clearly not. Interesting...

So far my "proof is in the pudding" results are such:

1. Being able to get a FULL nights sleep:
Sleep appears to be deeper (subjectively so) but i am STILL waking up at 4-5am every night since I started nearly a week ago. I'm planning to take a night off of using the mat and see if I wake up, this week

2. Feeling more rested than I normally do
During the day I'm feeling tired still, it's about the same as normal. Given i'm not sleeping fully, it could be a good thing. I guess i want to get a full nights sleep while using the mat to get a definitive result on this

3. Having less 'brain fog' the next day due to the rest
Ties into 1 & 2, but I do feel sharper, but again this is subjective

4. Managing stress better (I'm a trader by trade so am used to a good amount of stress)
This is one thing that I can say has improved significantly. I'm not feeling as stressed whilst trading and am able to recover from negative emotions quicker than usual. Still this isn't something that can be assessed after only a week. So will keep track

5. Any other benefits are icing on the cake at this stage
I normally do yoga once a week and have wanted to increase this to 2-3 times per week. I've not been able to do it as i've got more than average muscle tension in the legs, so when I do yoga exercises on them I get really stiff the next day and i end up giving up and resting them. This week I've done yoga 2 times so far and have been able to push myself harder and haven't had as much leg tension. I'd say it's about 50% reduced compared with normal. Not sure if this is placebo, will monitor

Other thing I've noticed is stamina overall. I seem to be getting a lot more stuff done (physical and mental work).

Will keep an eye on this stuff and report back in about 3 weeks (after a month of usage)...

Cheers all for following along
S

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I've connected the speaker wire with the same skewer I used last night and have tested for continuity. There is still 100 megohm resistance as per the original spec of the cable that came with the mat.

Been away from the interwebs for a few days. This interests me. Please can you tell me about the 100 megohm resistance, where it is installed and which of your configurations it has been used with. E.g. is it built into the mat grounding cord? Please can you confirm that it is stated to be 100 megohms.

People, please let the OP respond to this before commenting further.

 

[sunnyod]

Hi Lucien. Yes the mat's cord has a 100 megohm resistor built in (not confirmed on website I purchased from but it's universally used in the DIY builds). I'm not 100% certain where in the cord it is located as I can't tell without cutting it open. I've seen it located closer to the side which connects to the earth on the mains on other peoples DIY build's however. This would make sense for this cord too as there is a 'banana plug' like pin on that side which might house it. See the image.

I don't suppose you know what the name of that pin is on the mat cord (I bought a female banana plug connector for the grounding rod extension wire but it's too small at 4mm. I think the pin is closer to 5mm)

FYI. I've not added any resistance onto the grounding rod extension wire as I believe the grounding mat resistance should be enough to protect me from any accidents. What do you think?