Notifying building control.

[fatboyslim]

Evening all,

Just a quick question, I am an electrical maintenance engineer and have 18th edition, inspection and testing and so on, so I get asked regularly by friends and family to carry out any electrical work they need. I only carry out minor work as I am not in a CPS, so cannot self-certify.

However, if I were to undertake notifiable work is the responsibility on myself to notify building control or the homeowner?

I would like to earn a little extra on the weekends but obviously, I don't have enough work to warrant joining a scheme. So for example, if a neighbour wants a new circuit for an outside shed and I issue an EIC and inform them to notify building control of the work undertaken would this eliminate the responsibility from me?

Any advice would be fantastic.

Cheers.

 

[westward10]

Do you have liability insurance?

 

[fatboyslim]

Do you have liability insurance?

No, I don't. Something I can look into perhaps?

 

[Avo Mk8]

Might work, but possible pitfalls
Homeowner should notify BC before work starts, get the estimated costs and pay at least part of the fee.
(between £50 and £650 depending where you are in the country)

Costs of Notifiying Building Control across England and Wales

Certain domestic electrical work requires you to notify your local building control. We have looked at how much notifying your building control costs.

electriciancourses4u.co.uk

Then you do the work and produce the EIC
Then the homeowner submits that as evidence of installation compliance, but if you are not a member of a scheme they may not accept your certificate. You would be wise to talk to BC beforehand to check that wouldn't be a problem.
The homeowner could find your fee + BC fee far exceed alternative quotes from electricians in a scheme!

In my limited experience, BC fees have been around the £350 mark, so that might put your potential customers off, especially for small jobs!

 

[nicebutdim]

No, I don't. Something I can look into perhaps?

It's not expensive. No one wants to find themselves having to make a claim, but worse still would be finding oneself in that position and not being insured.

 

[fatboyslim]

Might work, but possible pitfalls
Homeowner should notify BC before work starts, get the estimated costs and pay at least part of the fee.
(between £50 and £650 depending where you are in the country)

Costs of Notifiying Building Control across England and Wales

Certain domestic electrical work requires you to notify your local building control. We have looked at how much notifying your building control costs.

electriciancourses4u.co.uk

Then you do the work and produce the EIC
Then the homeowner submits that as evidence of installation compliance, but if you are not a member of a scheme they may not accept your certificate. You would be wise to talk to BC beforehand to check that wouldn't be a problem.
The homeowner could find your fee + BC fee far exceed alternative quotes from electricians in a scheme!

In my limited experience, BC fees have been around the £350 mark, so that might put your potential customers off, especially for small jobs!

Thanks for the advice, looks like I need to get friendly with my local building control officer.

 

[fatboyslim]

Done some research last night and came across this on the LABC website Do I need building regulations approval for electrical work? | LABC - https://www.labc.co.uk/homeowners/do-i-need-building-regulations-application-specific-projects/electrical-work

It looks like the responsibility is on the homeowner to ensure work is notified. However, I have composed an email to my local building control and I'll wait and see what they're answer to this query is.

 

[SparkySy]

It is the responsibility of the home owner to check that the electrical contractor they use is capable of signing the work off with LABC.
But how many home owners know this, most I have dealings with have never heard of part P!
And in court if something happens how would you answer the question, why are you not part of a CPS!
Sy

 

[fatboyslim]

It is the responsibility of the home owner to check that the electrical contractor they use is capable of signing the work off with LABC.
But how many home owners know this, most I have dealings with have never heard of part P!
And in court if something happens how would you answer the question, why are you not part of a CPS!
Sy

Appreciate your comment especially regarding a court scenario.
My answer would be something along the lines of
"I've done my to due diligence in conforming to BS7671 and ensuring that the property was inspected and tested and left in a safe condition during the time of the installation. Being part of a CPS is not a legal requirement and the homeowner was aware of this work needing to be notified to local building control."
However, unless anyone has previous experiences of court cases due to electrical work then who knows where I would stand!

Anyway, I will update when I receive a response from my local building control. If anyone is interested that is , but looks like I'll stick with the day job and odd minor works now and then.

 

[SparkySy]

My answer would be something along the lines of
"I've done my to due diligence in conforming to BS7671 and ensuring that the property was inspected and tested and left in a safe condition during the time of the installation.

That would be a very good answer!

This is the reason a few people that I know have not jumped on the CPS bandwagon, in their eyes they did full apprenticeships and qualified (with ongoing updates) so why do I need another body to make sure it's signed off!
I am inclined to agree as it's just another hoop to jump through!
I have been a CPS member of one flavor or another since the scam started, done CPD all the regs updates and further training for Solar and the likes. I would have done this anyway regardless of being in a scam as I am interested in the advancements that have been made since the 15th edition.

Soo is there a need for these people, no probably not!
But they are there, and regulations are there, so I will continue to be scammed every year so I can do the 8-10 domestic jobs I do a year and be a good compliant citizen!

Tbh they have only ever been used as a notification portal to LABC, I never ask them for technical support or anything, it's all in the books and what isn't is why this great forum and others exist!
Sy

 

[fatboyslim]

But they are there, and regulations are there, so I will continue to be scammed every year so I can do the 8-10 domestic jobs I do a year and be a good compliant citizen!

That's my problem, I'll be lucky to earn little over the CPS annual fee as I'm only interested in 2 jobs a month and they might not even be notifiable.

It's ashame LABC can't have an easy to use portal for electical works conducted by competent persons.

 

[fatboyslim]

Right anyone who is interested!
My local building control has replied to my email stating that the Fee is £400 as they need to send a sparky in a CPS to sign the work off.
They have however informed me that I can complete the work and instruct a sparky in a CPS to sign the work off on my behalf (basically cutting out their fee). But let's be honest no one should be signing off other people work anyway.

Looks like I'll stick to minor works and the day job .
Cheers for everyone's input.

 

[James]

The point is, if you inform them and pay the fee, you have done everything you are obligated to do.
they will send someone in and get an inspection report back.
however if you get someone in to notify and certify it, they would be providing an installation certificate and that in my opinion is wrong as they can't certify work they have not done, only inspect and report its condition and that is not the same thing.

 

[fatboyslim]

The point is, if you inform them and pay the fee, you have done everything you are obligated to do.
they will send someone in and get an inspection report back.
however if you get someone in to notify and certify it, they would be providing an installation certificate and that in my opinion is wrong as they can't certify work they have not done, only inspect and report its condition and that is not the same thing.

Totally agree! I wouldn't sign off anyone's install at work, only my own work.
Realistically, adding the fee to little notifiable jobs that take a few hours on a Saturday morning would just not be viable to potential clients. It would be cheaper for them to find a sparky in a CPS to carry out the work.

 

[Rockingit]

I'm actually half tempted to try this for myself.

I lapsed my NICEIC AC last year as a) it was increasingly hard to justify the business case and b) it was damn near impossible for the specialism that I do to keep finding decent enough commercial projects simply to drag an inspector to - it's actually possible for me to go an entire year without having to write a conventional EIC!

Anyway.... very curious as to what would happen if I do a Part P notifiable job at my own place, do the EIC and post it off to my LABC with a 'there you go' attitude. If they come back asking for a fee then I'd agree to the £5 or whatever it is a time now from a scam but no more.

However, my previous experience with LABC's and notification is that they don't know their arse from their elbow, especially when it comes to what is, and isn't, required. I did a job several years ago for a builder mate in London, kitchen extension and NONE of it applied to the then down-sized part p reqs. Was also a time when I hadn't bothered with a scam for a year or so (I tend to dip in and out when I have a need to..). Copped merry hell off my mate when he had Camden borough BC breathing down his neck asking for my scam details as I wasn't on the register, thinking I was doing something dodgy. It took me weeks to educate a London building inspector that she was talking ball hooks before it got resolved.

 

[SparkySy]

@Rockingit
Totally agree with they have no clue what they need!
I went and did a job last year that was all on and working but an absolute mess and dangerous on some circuits! The customer needed a cert to get the building passed off.
The spark involved had got paid and done a runner and had clearly no intention of issuing a cert.
I told the customer the best I could do was issue a EICR for the installation and rectification of all the issues. He agreed.
Work was done cert issued.
LABC were adamant that a Part P cert was needed and an EIC.
Who has even heard of a Part P cert!
The customer's architect got involved and suddenly all was fine with an EICR.

 

[LukeD]

Councils..... tend to only show a interest if its a "cash earner " for them .Barnet near me , must have more ex staff who worked in the building side or unemployment dept that have a few millions worth of property .... Here and abroad. 30 years ago there was almost a price list of what needed to be given to get what ever you wanted .

 

[Simon47]

My local building control has replied to my email stating that the Fee is £400 as they need to send a sparky in a CPS to sign the work off.

You made the mistakes of a) asking the wrong question, and b) asking it at all.
If you ask them, then of course they'll gold plate their interpretation of what they think the rules should be.
Anecdotally, it seems the best approach is to simply notify and then send in an EIC with all the numbers filled in.
At my last house I was planning a CU change and put in notice. The inspector asked about certification and I just said I'd be providing an EIC with a full set of test results. He thought for a moment and just said "OK". From their PoV the main thing is having a bit of paper with someone's signature on it to take any blame.
Elsewhere (don't recall if here or DIYnot) someone had a similar conversation but BC insisted on a third party (scam member) certificate. His response was something along the lines of "I'm level 6 qualified, if you're going to have to get someone level 7 qualified if my level 6 isn't good enough for you" - and BC very quickly backed down.

With a completely different hat on, I've also had the same thing - if you ask first then they'll give you the C.Y.A. response and insist on the equivalent of scam membership etc., but if you just send the relevant documents then they'll accept them.