Size of shower cable

[Bensen]

Hey what kilowatt showers can be feed off 6mm cable and which need 10mm? I guess the distance from the fuse board also needs taking in to account?

 

[sparksburnout]

Can I just ask then, what is the point of this forum? :
1. It would appear that no one other than the approved "inner circle" is allowed to provide advice regarding any aspect of electrical work
2 Any one that Does is derided and ridiculed unless it meets with the above mentioned clans various opinions on any given topic, this one being a prime example.
3. Any one that asks a question other than some fairly in depth problem is met with criticism and branded a Electrical Trainee.

it would seem to me as a fairly new member that this forum is in reality just a meeting place for a select number of members, some of whom are obviously very nice guys but unfortunately a possible majority who just seem to have an axe to grind and resent any other member who dares to make comment or does not meet with the required degree of excellence.

I can cope with all this, and find it quite amusing most of the time, but what is the point of it?? Is it a social meting place for the "elect", or is it to assist others? If it is for professional electricians who have no tolerance for anyone other than those with select knowledge and experience , should it not be limited to them and not open to lesser mortals? A few guys on here are helpful, witty and a pleasure to read, but there are quite a few others who seem to have a permanent problem with life.

 

[Sparkie30]

Sorry Tazz, genuine error.

The posts were relating to arguments regarding the use of 6mm cable on 8.5kw showers.

On paper its a no no. In practice on a 32a mcb they were finding no thermal damage or evidence of.
I would never condone this on a new install, far from it. But I have seen it myself and even 8.5kw on a 4mm with again no signs of thermal damage.
On the other hand I have come across a number of 45 amp pull switches with poorly connected cables often on the neutral side which have deffo signs of heat damage.
depends really on how long the showers in use and again installation criteria ect.
I am NOT saying its good practice or correct, just that it does happen, and can happen with no ill effects.
The opposite can also be true, with dire consequences, but thankfully I have never been witness to this.

Just a quick point,
Very often good qualified sparkies will get together in the real world.
They are different ages have been in the game for varying times.
Now as said I haven't actually met up with any who know of, or have subscribed to this sight.
But one thing I can say, face to face you can talk freely and discuss different viewpoints and opinions.
I am well known and respect them for who they are and what they know.
Never would they say or imply that a 61 year old man who has been in this industry since the age of 17.
Covered an apprenticeship C&G 236 part 1,2, B and C. 16th 17th 2391
JIB registered approved and Site manager gradings.
Worked and run commercial installs for Aldi ,Q-Fit, Frenchay Hospital cleft unit. Ushers pubs. Texaco garage installs along with the gilbarco lads, a great bunch as I remember. (Cold windy wet and making off MI's. No not fond memories there)
Anyway I digress, as !!!! incompetent.
But you come onto a forum such as this and well !! It speaks for itself.
I noted a comment about coming on the site to build up there post count, and to boast about what they do or do not know.
There is an underlying ego problem going on here, and of course this aint part of the real world.
I won't be posting up again, because I have become highly suspicious of the types of people that are on here.
By that I mean some of the regular posters who seem to be drawing together against new meat so to speak.
Its not healthy.
Sorry if I have rattled cages, but it needs to be said.

This link shouldn't draw moderation hopefully

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk...ons/48104-using-8-5kw-shower-6mm-circuit.html

Mate dont let any of these gods gifted sparks who know everything and they want to dictate what others should say get under your skin.

 

[baldsparkies]

I have taken the rope from around my neck, climbed down off the chair, and decided in the end, that maybe you do love me.
Tell you what though, this internet is amazing, type how to install a shower into google.
Who needs an electrician !!
And that, sadly is no joke.
I really must get a life though, this forum stuff is taking me away from the real world and its addictive.
No wonder my business partner keeps asking about all the spam saying so and so has replied to a thread you've subscribed to.
Now that's a reason to give this a rest for a few days.

 

[Silly Sausage]

No wonder my business partner keeps asking about all the spam saying so and so has replied to a thread you've subscribed to.
Now that's a reason to give this a rest for a few days.

You can turn those email notifications off.
Then this forum affair is your own guilty secret!

 

[uksparks]

it would seem to me as a fairly new member that this forum is in reality just a meeting place for a select number of members, some of whom are obviously very nice guys but unfortunately a possible majority who just seem to have an axe to grind and resent any other member who dares to make comment or does not meet with the required degree of excellence.

I can cope with all this, and find it quite amusing most of the time, but what is the point of it?? Is it a social meting place for the "elect", or is it to assist others? If it is for professional electricians who have no tolerance for anyone other than those with select knowledge and experience , should it not be limited to them and not open to lesser mortals? A few guys on here are helpful, witty and a pleasure to read, but there are quite a few others who seem to have a permanent problem with life.

There is a mixture of people on here, and the majority are good people, the issue is, people come on here saying they are all that and really they know nothing and just start to ask the most basic questions and they are the ones wrecking the industry and do on. It just wears a bit thin, the same questions time and time again from people who are supposedly practising electricians.

Ill be honest, I hated it on here at first, and kept saying to the mrs that it's full of ----ers and I'm going to stop using the forum, but look at me now, I'm approaching 3000 posts and spend more tme on here than with the mrs and know who the regulars are and can honestly say I like it and am addicted to it, you get to know who is who and what people are like.

I say, if you can't beat them, join them and be a ----er too! Just kidding about you all being a bunch of knobs, I like you all really.

 

[uksparks]

You can turn those email notifications off.
Then this forum affair is your own guilty secret!

Guilty, I feel like I'm cheating on the mrs!

 

[baldsparkies]

:icon12:

Can I just ask then, what is the point of this forum? :
1. It would appear that no one other than the approved "inner circle" is allowed to provide advice regarding any aspect of electrical work
2 Any one that Does is derided and ridiculed unless it meets with the above mentioned clans various opinions on any given topic, this one being a prime example.
3. Any one that asks a question other than some fairly in depth problem is met with criticism and branded a Electrical Trainee.

it would seem to me as a fairly new member that this forum is in reality just a meeting place for a select number of members, some of whom are obviously very nice guys but unfortunately a possible majority who just seem to have an axe to grind and resent any other member who dares to make comment or does not meet with the required degree of excellence.

I can cope with all this, and find it quite amusing most of the time, but what is the point of it?? Is it a social meting place for the "elect", or is it to assist others? If it is for professional electricians who have no tolerance for anyone other than those with select knowledge and experience , should it not be limited to them and not open to lesser mortals? A few guys on here are helpful, witty and a pleasure to read, but there are quite a few others who seem to have a permanent problem with life.

Do be careful,
That's paramount to Blasphemy on here

 

[D Skelton]

Can I just ask then, what is the point of this forum? :
1. It would appear that no one other than the approved "inner circle" is allowed to provide advice regarding any aspect of electrical work
2 Any one that Does is derided and ridiculed unless it meets with the above mentioned clans various opinions on any given topic, this one being a prime example.
3. Any one that asks a question other than some fairly in depth problem is met with criticism and branded a Electrical Trainee.

it would seem to me as a fairly new member that this forum is in reality just a meeting place for a select number of members, some of whom are obviously very nice guys but unfortunately a possible majority who just seem to have an axe to grind and resent any other member who dares to make comment or does not meet with the required degree of excellence.

I can cope with all this, and find it quite amusing most of the time, but what is the point of it?? Is it a social meting place for the "elect", or is it to assist others? If it is for professional electricians who have no tolerance for anyone other than those with select knowledge and experience , should it not be limited to them and not open to lesser mortals? A few guys on here are helpful, witty and a pleasure to read, but there are quite a few others who seem to have a permanent problem with life.

Right then, put your money where your mouth is.

Name the members of this so called 'inner circle'.

If you could, can you also tell us to what extent each of these members resents anyone else's right to comment?

I'd love to know, no really I would, because if there is an inner circle I'm sure as hell not a member! As I have such an overwhelming 'need' to feel like I belong, I just need to know where to sent my application form for inner circle membership.

 

[shanky887614]

Can I just ask then, what is the point of this forum? :
1. It would appear that no one other than the approved "inner circle" is allowed to provide advice regarding any aspect of electrical work
2 Any one that Does is derided and ridiculed unless it meets with the above mentioned clans various opinions on any given topic, this one being a prime example.
3. Any one that asks a question other than some fairly in depth problem is met with criticism and branded a Electrical Trainee.

it would seem to me as a fairly new member that this forum is in reality just a meeting place for a select number of members, some of whom are obviously very nice guys but unfortunately a possible majority who just seem to have an axe to grind and resent any other member who dares to make comment or does not meet with the required degree of excellence.

I can cope with all this, and find it quite amusing most of the time, but what is the point of it?? Is it a social meting place for the "elect", or is it to assist others? If it is for professional electricians who have no tolerance for anyone other than those with select knowledge and experience , should it not be limited to them and not open to lesser mortals? A few guys on here are helpful, witty and a pleasure to read, but there are quite a few others who seem to have a permanent problem with life.

in this case what the op was asking is ohm's law, the basic's of the basics.


V=IR
I=V/R
R=V/I

bassically to start with a 10kw shower would be 10,000 / 230 = 43Amps

so now you have your design current for your cable calc.

the cable you need for a 10kw shower depends on installation methods (clipped direct)

if it has loads of insulation along the route and other factors you might need a 16+mm cable (this is why we calculate cables in the first place)


and to answer your question, the members here get that bored and wound up from giving people the same advice everyday on how to wire a shed they get ratty

 

[tazz]

Baldsparkies & sparksburnout, Just like a building site, the forum is built up of experienced electricians from all sections of the industry. And being a member you need to understand constructive debate. The idea is to put your question in a tread, for others to to help and obvious prove their advice against proven BS regs and not against joe bloggs web info. As an experience tradesman, you should be able to debate with you own knowledge of the BS, again in a constructive manner. Members such as yourself are free to express their views, aslong as they are not abusive, racist or classed as bullying. May I suggest a new constructive way forward, to answer your questions

 

[HandySparks]

in this case what the op was asking is ohm's law, the basic's of the basics.


V=R/I
I=R/V
R=IxV

bassically to start with a 10kw shower would be 10,000 / 230 = 43Amps

....

Really?

 

[Knobhead]

After slogging through this thread all I can say is:

I’m BORED!

 

[baldsparkies]

Using 6mm to supply an 8.5kw shower is WRONG.
Unless your a qualified electrician you should NOT be doing the job because of the many variables, and safety is paramount.
But real world scenario is often very different, and in your working life you will often come across situations that conflict with calculations, and regs.
When that happens you need to ask, how so !!
As an example there are situations where an 8.5 kw shower will be fed from a 6mm cable on a 32 amp mcb over many years and show no signs of thermal damage, or have given any problems to the user.
Calculations and regs will say otherwise, real life is often very different.
Of course your maxing these situations out, which is far from a good idea.
next time your running an 8.5kw shower.
Check your 230v supply and see what your really getting. Clamp test the shower and see what its really pulling.
Then maybe you will see why sometimes 6mm will appear to suffice despite all the theory.
ITS still WRONG and I don't dispute that but it is possible.
My comments are for qualified electricians, not for Joe public.
So Joe public take note. The fall out I am receiving is to protect YOU not me.

 

[Guest77]

Changed my mind, I don't want him to get his skirt ripped.

 

[Andy78]

Using 6mm to supply an 8.5kw shower is WRONG.

I'd best not use my shower until I've got my metal CU fitted then.

 

[andyelectric]

Been reading this thread with interest. Whilst I do not agree that there is an 'inner circle' on here I do feel that there some pretty much 'hardcore' views that have been agreed on by a large group. A large number (but not all) of this large group are on other sites where they seem freer to 'co-ordinate' viewpoints about certain things.

Here's the 3 points I think that have been agreed.

1. If a person is asking a question and is not a 'qualified electrician' only the answer get a qualified electrician in is appropriate.
2. To be a 'qualified electrician' only a time served apprenticeship is appropriate. Electrical Trainee do not count.
3. Due to the fact that the government through Competent Person Scheme seems to be recognising Electrical Trainee reform of the industry is required. A proper register limiting electrical work to those in (2.) is required.

All these 3 statement are applied under the guise of public safety. And I do not dispute that application of these statements would improve safety. (How much is subjective).

It is my feeling though that the main thrust is to 'preserve the bottom line'.

1. Try and prevent diy if it could mean a sparkie getting the work.
2/3. Try and keep this work to 'proper sparkies' that have completed the same training as us, cause that'll push prices back up.

Let me qualify by saying that I know there will be many that fall on the safety as opposed to profit side of my above statement, so please don't just try to shout me down as it is pretty obvious no one is going to admit being on the other 'purely profit motivated' side of the fence.

 

[Anthony S]

Been reading this thread with interest. Whilst I do not agree that there is an 'inner circle' on here I do feel that there some pretty much 'hardcore' views that have been agreed on by a large group. A large number (but not all) of this large group are on other sites where they seem freer to 'co-ordinate' viewpoints about certain things.

Its not hard core views, it the case that there's a few members/posters who know their stuff and they try to advise others, but it comes across as though they are digging people out when they are not and people take it to heart.

 

[Guest77]

I'd best not use my shower until I've got my metal CU fitted then.

Very true, and the 8.5 kw shower which is working at my parents house wired in a 6mm2 cable which is at least 12 years old now must be switched off immediately as well.

 

[telectrix]

Very true, and the 8.5 kw shower which is working at my parents house wired in a 6mm2 cable which is at least 12 years old now must be switched off immediately as well.

so, wtf do you know about showers?

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/chit-chat-off-topic/98832-help-please-3.html

:smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5::smilielol5:

 

[Andy78]

Been reading this thread with interest. Whilst I do not agree that there is an 'inner circle' on here I do feel that there some pretty much 'hardcore' views that have been agreed on by a large group. A large number (but not all) of this large group are on other sites where they seem freer to 'co-ordinate' viewpoints about certain things.

Here's the 3 points I think that have been agreed.

1. If a person is asking a question and is not a 'qualified electrician' only the answer get a qualified electrician in is appropriate.
2. To be a 'qualified electrician' only a time served apprenticeship is appropriate. Electrical Trainee do not count.
3. Due to the fact that the government through Competent Person Scheme seems to be recognising Electrical Trainee reform of the industry is required. A proper register limiting electrical work to those in (2.) is required.

All these 3 statement are applied under the guise of public safety. And I do not dispute that application of these statements would improve safety. (How much is subjective).

It is my feeling though that the main thrust is to 'preserve the bottom line'.

1. Try and prevent diy if it could mean a sparkie getting the work.
2/3. Try and keep this work to 'proper sparkies' that have completed the same training as us, cause that'll push prices back up.

Let me qualify by saying that I know there will be many that fall on the safety as opposed to profit side of my above statement, so please don't just try to shout me down as it is pretty obvious no one is going to admit being on the other 'purely profit motivated' side of the fence.

You can file me under both your categories. However when dishing advice on the internet it's the safety aspect that is the overruling one for me, as anonymity is a veil that prevents me from easily assessing someone I have never met.
When it comes to basic questions such as this one, anyone who should know, should know and anyone who doesn't know shouldn't be doing it and should not be advised how to.
There are certain tasks that I feel DIYers should be able to carry out in their own home. Unfortunately I also don't advise on that on this forum due to the anonymity issue again, and the way the DIY forum is set up on here.
My reluctance to give information due to safety is purely a "getting to sleep at night" thing and not to do with legal implications.
Week after week members on here give advice to new members with 1 post count both in the main and DIY forum, which is totally irresponsible in my book.