Lighting Circuit Nuetrals in Domestic Light Switches

[7029 dave]

Hi,

I can see where you are coming from Barrie, when I did my apprenticeship I would of been slated if I had run neutrals through switches ; it was a definite No No. Same as running any circuit through a DB, but times have changed especially with the advent of downlights ( we only ever had pendants or florries back in the day). I have been doing some work on my place on the upstairs lighting and I still use the old JB04 method, not everyone's cup of tea; but does it for me.

Regards.

Yep, times have changed , not going to go into it because N's in switch's have been flogged to death on here.

 

[Clive P]

Hi Dave,

Totally agree, and I now accept neutrals in switches etc; even do it myself!

Regards.

 

[Barrie Patrick]

Hi MidWest,

Thanks for that. I actually read it, well virtually all of it, last night. Bit of a learning curve here for me at present as I've never actually had to deal with building regs before in respect of a domestic electrical installation but I have been doing a lot of reading and its all very interesting. Personally I've said that due to the likely age of the wiring and the fact I think a gifted amatuer has carried out a few alterations to the wiring over the years I'd start again and get it rewired but time will tell?

Barrie

Barrie

 

[Barrie Patrick]

Hi StantheMan,

Thanks for your message, I'm enjoying being here.

I dont think the J/B I used is a maintenance free one but it is what I would call accessible, sure others may disagree. I know where its fitted and the trap in the floorboards of the bedroom where it is, is marked (Kitchen lighting J/B), however there is carpet and underlay over the floorboards and the dreaded furniture would need moving but this is how I was taught and I think its good enough.

Barrie

 

[Barrie Patrick]

Tut Tut lol

 

[Barrie Patrick]

Hi Clive P,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions, I'm really relieved I'm not the only one who remembers that running neutrals through switches was taboo but everything evolves and if you can learn something new everyday you're doing well,

Barrie

 

[Deleted member 9648]

The reason that neutrals in switches is no longer considered bad practice is that nobody has ever come up with a valid reason as to why it is bad practice.
The arguments are that the neutral is not necessary in a switch box. That argument ignores the fact that a permanent live is not necessary at a 3 plate light point.
Another argument is that a switch box is not a suitable enclosure for joints,which ignores the fact that neither is a light fitting.

 

[Deleted member 72666]

Sorry Did not read your post properly :1eye:

Not a problem, I'm prone to doing that myself.

 

[DPG]

Hi StantheMan,

Thanks for your message, I'm enjoying being here.

I dont think the J/B I used is a maintenance free one but it is what I would call accessible, sure others may disagree. I know where its fitted and the trap in the floorboards of the bedroom where it is, is marked (Kitchen lighting J/B), however there is carpet and underlay over the floorboards and the dreaded furniture would need moving but this is how I was taught and I think its good enough.

Barrie

Definitely not accessible then I would say And the problem is, although you know where it is, no-one else does in years to come. Maybe wago's would have been better here? Daz

 

[Flanders]

Definitely not accessible then I would say And the problem is, although you know where it is, no-one else does in years to come. Maybe wago's would have been better here? Daz

I,m sure that junction box will fine and as long as all terminals are nice and tight the junction box if fixed and the cable cliped it will be good for 100 years or more !!!

 

[DPG]

I,m sure that junction box will fine and as long as all terminals are nice and tight the junction box if fixed and the cable cliped it will be good for 100 years or more !!!

Not convinced - I've seen quite a few loose terminals. Especially if there's also no strain relief on the cables. Daz

 

[Jay Sparks]

Another good reason why neutrals are connected in the switch back box's, is with the advent of the RCD. When testing your Zs on No trip, as you need to connect to the neutral as well, it's a lot easier to do at the switch, than the light fitting on ladders.

Jay

 

[Flanders]

Not convinced - I've seen quite a few loose terminals. Especially if there's also no strain relief on the cables. Daz

yes i have tloo but always belieave if its install propley in the first place then it will last for years .

 

[7029 dave]

yes i have tloo but always belieave if its install propley in the first place then it will last for years .

I agree with you, having said that any joint anywhere is going to be an fault liability.

 

[Marvo]

The reason that neutrals in switches is no longer considered bad practice is that nobody has ever come up with a valid reason as to why it is bad practice.
The arguments are that the neutral is not necessary in a switch box. That argument ignores the fact that a permanent live is not necessary at a 3 plate light point.
Another argument is that a switch box is not a suitable enclosure for joints,which ignores the fact that neither is a light fitting.

Neutrals through switch boxes is the normal way of doing things where I am and this post pretty much sums up my sentiments about it. It's something that some of the older guys feel strongly about but I've never heard a convincing argument against it.

 

[Barrie Patrick]

Have to say Thank You to everyone whose replied and I'm sorry if the topic of neutrals in light switches had previously been done to death on here but I've actually found it very useful to hear what some of the Younger guys on here actually do when installing and what they think. I think if I ever do any wiring again I'll think about running the neutral through the switch................... then Not do it LOL

One reason I remember the tutor giving us at Tech for not taking a neutral through a switch was it increases the chance of electric shock because there is a return path at the switch, I always thought this a little lame as there is already an earth there as a return path, that switched sockets outlets, spur units and double pole switches had a neutral and earth with a switch and it was deemed ok so like others I dont really have a valid argument for not doing it :-(

However, I'm afraid I will probably stick with what I know but now I wont criticise other Sparkies who do run neutrals through switches and if ever stuck I'll do it without that guilty feeling I would have once had LOL

Barrie

 

[PEG]

Welcome,Barrie, and may i take this opportunity to applaud an action,that three pages on,everybody has overlooked...

That is,that you got yer tools out,at your nieces party ...a man after my own heart...

 

[Paulgwat]

I would expect to see Neutrals being brought into light switch back boxes being something that will get more common with the rise in popularity of home automation systems as most of the lower cost systems such as Zwave and Fibaro etc need a neutral to work.

If doing a rewire I personally would bring a neutral to each light switch as a minimum, if not all of the Nautrals for that circuit.

My understanding was that the UK was the odd one out and that in most other European countries you would expect to see Neutrals in a light switch back box as a normality.

Paul

 

[M-Ty]

One reason I remember the tutor giving us at Tech for not taking a neutral through a switch was it increases the chance of electric shock because there is a return path at the switch, I always thought this a little lame as there is already an earth there as a return path <SNIP>
Barrie

You're right: It sounds like he was more familiar with the 13th Edition with its un-earthed lighting circuits, if non-conducting floors, and/or metal fittings (now luminaires) placed out of reach.

 

[hightower]

On the subject of accessibility I'm sure I've seen somewhere that a hatch in the floorboards is acceptable for screw type junction boxes. Will try and remember where I saw that. ...