Need advice please!

[jonny110]

OK so here i go about to bear my soul to a bunch of strangers - please be gentle!

So i was made redundant from my job as a maintenance spark at a factory in Burnley 18 months ago and since have really struggled finding work. Been helping mates out labouring on sites but this just dosen't make the moola and been struggling.

So I put an ad in my local rag for electrical work and been pretty well blown away with the response. Now i been keeping up with part p and the notification bit so it's mainly been changing light fittings (not in bathrooms) and small jobs like new sockets and the such like.

Got a call from a take away last week saying that they got problems with their 'lectrics tripping'.

So i go over and have a look. Well - horror. The CU was an old contactum unit with random MCBs installed and quite warm to the touch. I began by isolating the board and taking the cover off. The first thing that hit me was the smell of burning plastic. The breaker that was tripping had several curcuits wired into it (electric bain marie, shop sockets, fridge sockets and industrial ectrator fan) and was quite black at the top.

So i began by testing the installation (no labels on any of the breakers) to try and see if there was anything majorly wrong apart from the fuseboard. Found a major earth fault on the electric bain marie which turned out to be the result of water leaking into the bottom of it and getting into the simmerstat causing live to earth fault. Repaired bain marie with new simmerstat and fixed the leak. All good.

Advised customer to have new 17 way CU fitted and split the circuits up. So i fitted new 17 way CU and a new isolator for a supply they had used to another meter feeding a flat next door (supply had been just connected into the bottom side of the old CU main switch!).

When i took out the old CU it was obvious it had been overloaded with burn marks around where the MCBs had been getting warm.

Fitted new CU and everything hunky dory and working fine. Now get call that outside lights are tripping the outside lights breaker and they want me to go back and they are sounding a bit shirty.

Now before i removed the old CU i did test the circuits and found no earth fault apart from the bain marie supply.

So far they up to 786 quid with me, which they have paid but they want me to now fix the outside lights for free!

OK so do not flame me but not part p registered as i only so far had a few jobs in and cannot afford the cost to get registered, be tested etc.

Don't think this comes under part p as it's commercial. So i am thinking that the outside light may be an intermittent earth fault,due to rain getting in them (they got 4 5 ft flourescents under a wooden hood), which may explain why it didn't show when i tested.

They are a little aggressive and always are on my case to get finished for like 3:30pm so they can open up which is ok cos they got a business to run. Anyone in the lancs area got any advice? Would you charge them for a revisit? Or how i can get part p registered through a start up scheme or something similar? Am time served and have 16th edition and city and guilds 236, eitb level 3.

Please don't flame me as i am only trying to earn a living for me and my family, i fully understand why part p is there and it's there to protect the customer, but it seems so bloody expensive to get registered, and who is going to have me do ' a small job' and then have me tell them that they have to inform building control etc. which adds hundreds on to the cost of the job. Then again, who is going to have me to do a large job such as a rewire and pay LABC. Then again don't want LABC coming round and fining me 1,000's I cannot afford.

Sorry to go on, but am feeling fed up. Boo hoo.

 

[Guest123]

Hi there, and welcome along.

With regard to the outside light tripping...if it is only tripping the MCB and not the RCD then either the circuit is overloaded or there is a short circuit L-N, not an earth fault.

You need to be very carefull with not being registered an all. I know it's a lot of cash but everyone elese has had to cough up too. You will need to do your 17th edition before you apply to a Part P scheme provider.

Alternatively you need to involve your local building control office with any notifiable jobs you do, more expensive this way though.

Cheers

 

[jonny110]

Hi there, and welcome along.

With regard to the outside light tripping...if it is only tripping the MCB and not the RCD then either the circuit is overloaded or there is a short circuit L-N, not an earth fault.

You need to be very carefull with not being registered an all. I know it's a lot of cash but everyone elese has had to cough up too. You will need to do your 17th edition before you apply to a Part P scheme provider.

Alternatively you need to involve your local building control office with any notifiable jobs you do, more expensive this way though.

Cheers

Yes thanks i am guessing at the moment (going back tomorrow) that it's an overloaded 6A breaker. Got 4 5ft flourescents and 2 500w halogens on it. Will check current with me clamp on and fit a 10a if required. Thanks for taking the time to read me post. Am saving up for part p, but if i can't do jobs, how do i get the cash?

Thought about selling me arse on street corners but its so spotty and hairy i don't think i'll be making much.

 

[Spudnik]

Indeed, you need to make sure you comply with Part P, however, it only applies to domestic works and not commercial.

 

[Guest123]

She's definately overloaded, looking at about 1500W = 6.5A, without the start up current of the fluo's.

 

[jonny110]

Well yes i been up to spec with part p and make sure all my work complies, but i guess that the notification bit will get me every time (not that i have done any jobs that need it yet).

She's definately overloaded, looking at about 1500W = 6.5A, without the start up current of the fluo's.

Will check again tomorrow and slip a nice 10a breaker in. That should stop her ringing me on a sunday, bloody cheek. NSB10 should do the trick.

 

[cbw]

Type c 6amp breaker needed for fluro startup ?

I get fed up with quoting for work and competeing with unregistered sparks, I too have a family to feed and cannot compete with guys who dont register, follow regulations, test, or certify and even worse the latest one I lost was to a guy who is adding metal lights in a kitchen with no earth and 60 year old wiring. No hope.

 

[jonny110]

Type c 6amp breaker needed for fluro startup ?

I get fed up with quoting for work and competeing with unregistered sparks, I too have a family to feed and cannot compete with guys who dont register, follow regulations, test, or certify and even worse the latest one I lost was to a guy who is adding metal lights in a kitchen with no earth and 60 year old wiring. No hope.

I fully appreciate what you are saying and will get registered asap when i get enough cash to do so. Unlike some cowboys i do follow the regs and have gone to jobs where NICEIC registered sparks have made me think 'erm thats not right'. Latest one was an NICEIC reg spark who fitted a new CU in a domestic property with no RCD fitted and upon checking i found no earth bonding to the gas. Registration is all well and good but it does not stop shoddy work. Makes a lot of cash for certain bodies though. 60,000 sparks in the UK at 1 grand a year. If it was a matter of public safety the costs to register should be set lower to encourage registration. Just my two penneth.

 

[Des 56]

I fully appreciate what you are saying and will get registered asap when i get enough cash to do so. Unlike some cowboys i do follow the regs and have gone to jobs where NICEIC registered sparks have made me think 'erm thats not right'. Latest one was an NICEIC reg spark who fitted a new CU in a domestic property with no RCD fitted and upon checking i found no earth bonding to the gas. Registration is all well and good but it does not stop shoddy work. Makes a lot of cash for certain bodies though. 60,000 sparks in the UK at 1 grand a year. If it was a matter of public safety the costs to register should be set lower to encourage registration. Just my two penneth.

Living in the real world is like living on Mars for what understanding the politicians have of our everyday lives and preasures

In order of importance
Get money to feed the family
Get money to house the family
Get money to make a comfortble life for the family
then way down the list would be
Get money to pay for a nonesense scheme brought in by said politicians

You are a trained spark
You probably do a very competent job
Why should any trained spark have to pay for this nonesense in order to carry out what he has already been trained for
I can't advise you to not pay into be in a scheme although I understand the reasons why you are not

Nobody has ever or probably in the future, never will been taken to court for anything other than pretending to be in the NIC when they have complied with BS7671

Paying to be part of part p and having disadvantages heaped on us with Lack of awareness by the public and lack of concern or competence to be concerned by building control

Knowing how this has all panned out after all these years,if I were to be aware of all of this when I first regisered then my decision would have been to have nothing to do with any of it, and just ignore it, as has been the case with countless qualified sparks

The instant someone hears of a job that has been done illegally,they assume that it is a cowboy undercutting the all paying legitimate spark

There are excellent sparks I know very well who have never had any involvement with the nonesense and dont intend to have any in the future
With the monies I have paid for this nonesense I wonder who the incompetent person really is
It may very well be the registered spark for being so gullible

best of luck with doing what you were trained to do and just keep your head low and it is unlikely that you will ever suffer any inquiry into your eforts

 

[cbw]

But you HAVE paid this money, me too and we have strict regulations to follow, people like this are undercutting us left right and center!!!! (And I dont blame you!!!! As you can and do get away with it, when they start enforcing the law hahahahaha) no chance......carry on

 

[jonny110]

Living in the real world is like living on Mars for what understanding the politicians have of our everyday lives and preasures

In order of importance
Get money to feed the family
Get money to house the family
Get money to make a comfortble life for the family
then way down the list would be
Get money to pay for a nonesense scheme brought in by said politicians

You are a trained spark
You probably do a very competent job
Why should any trained spark have to pay for this nonesense in order to carry out what he has already been trained for
I can't advise you to not pay into be in a scheme although I understand the reasons why you are not

Nobody has ever or probably in the future, never will been taken to court for anything other than pretending to be in the NIC when they have complied with BS7671

Paying to be part of part p and having disadvantages heaped on us with Lack of awareness by the public and lack of concern or competence to be concerned by building control

Knowing how this has all panned out after all these years,if I were to be aware of all of this when I first regisered then my decision would have been to have nothing to do with any of it, and just ignore it, as has been the case with countless qualified sparks

The instant someone hears of a job that has been done illegally,they assume that it is a cowboy undercutting the all paying legitimate spark

There are excellent sparks I know very well who have never had any involvement with the nonesense and dont intend to have any in the future
With the monies I have paid for this nonesense I wonder who the incompetent person really is
It may very well be the registered spark for being so gullible

best of luck with doing what you were trained to do and just keep your head low and it is unlikely that you will ever suffer any inquiry into your eforts

I hear what you are saying and thankyou for your comments, and i do understand the genuine bitterness that paying sparks have towards people like myself. If they could only understand - i only want to make a decent life for me and my family doing what i have been trained to do. I understand the beaurocracy and when i have the cash i will get part p registered. I am not a cowboy, and have been to too many jobs done by 'registered' sparks that left a lot to be desired. 4 years at college, a full apprenticeship and 15 years experience tell me i know what i am doing.

I am not some 'bodge it and scarper' type who screams 'yee hah' when i drive off with wheels spinning from every job i do. I also do not need to have to shell out 1,000's to let me work (i already pay enough tax!).

With that said, I hope everybody continues to have lots of work coming in and has a Merry Christmas!

 

[patricklondon]

jonny on a commercial property like this there is no need to notify labc so no need to be part p registered. not a problem there is no need for your apologetic tone my friend you sound more than competant and 7671 compliant. i very much sympathise with your predicament re family and funds and extra cost to jump through expensive hoops. go forth and prosper

 

[Yooj]

I would echo Des 56's response, in that look after No.1 first...In terms of registration, only do this when you are finding that it is impeding your ability to get work and not before.

In terms of your existing customer, as Patricklondon and others have stated, it does not fall under Part P, other that the tenanted flat...How about you suggest to the aggressive client that to fault-find and fix the outside lights would cost e.g. £100, however, because they have been a good client you are going to waive this cost as long as they provide you with a reference for your work...and to save them the trouble, you draft up the reference and they sign it...that way you at least get something useful out of it.

Yooj

 

[jonny110]

I would echo Des 56's response, in that look after No.1 first...In terms of registration, only do this when you are finding that it is impeding your ability to get work and not before.

In terms of your existing customer, as Patricklondon and others have stated, it does not fall under Part P, other that the tenanted flat...How about you suggest to the aggressive client that to fault-find and fix the outside lights would cost e.g. £100, however, because they have been a good client you are going to waive this cost as long as they provide you with a reference for your work...and to save them the trouble, you draft up the reference and they sign it...that way you at least get something useful out of it.

Yooj

Thanks for the advice! Hadn't thought of that. Been back today and fitted 10a breaker but think that there might be water in one of the 5ft fittings (indoor type!) and that the os lights might want totally rewiring as i noticed some very dodgy looking 1.5 t+e snaking it's way towards a open hole in one of the flourescents.
Anyways, thanks for all your comments.

 

[reidmaguire]

Jonny

Like you I am a competent spark juggling work and family pressure - and too am working toward joining a competent person scheme such as NICEIC when I can afford it!

I have been lucky in that most of the work I do is non notifiable (either minor domestic or commercial) and if I have a larger job such as rewire or major extension this is notified through LABC. As you are obviously competent dont be affraid to use the Buiding Control route, and build a professional relationship with them - as long as the paperwork is complete they are more than happy!!

Good luck

 

[Golden_Boy]

Type c 6amp breaker needed for fluro startup ?

I get fed up with quoting for work and competeing with unregistered sparks, I too have a family to feed and cannot compete with guys who dont register, follow regulations, test, or certify and even worse the latest one I lost was to a guy who is adding metal lights in a kitchen with no earth and 60 year old wiring. No hope.

Just a thought... If you divide the cost of registration/insurance by the number of jobs you do in a year you get an amount that you need to add to every job in order to compete with an unregistered sparks ? I wonder how much this amounts to on average???