SY cable on EICR again ....

[lozarus]

All you can really comment on is the degradation of the outside cable, seen this many times with SY.

Problem is there's hundreds of installations out there like this. It's clearly an inappropriate product for the environment. It shouldn't be this hard for me to prove it.

 

[westward10]

Problem is there's hundreds of installations out there like this. It's clearly an inappropriate product for the environment. It shouldn't be this hard for me to prove it.

I never comment on it aside from where it is used externally some things aren't worth worrying about. I do comment if there are no ferrules fitted where required.

 

[lozarus]

I never comment on it aside from where it is used externally some things aren't worth worrying about. I do comment if there are no ferrules fitted where required.

You're right. Im probably overthinking it. What can I say - passionate about the industry

 

[Fazz711]

Some of the specs on RS Web site say only to be used as control cable. Which is what it was made for due to the screening.
I have this argument all the time and did find a good back up on Wikipedia which states dose not comply with 7671 and only to be used for V less than 50.
Still find some of the te h guys and sparks use it.
I point blank refuse to touch it.

 

[westward10]

Some of the specs on RS Web site say only to be used as control cable. Which is what it was made for due to the screening.
I have this argument all the time and did find a good back up on Wikipedia which states dose not comply with 7671 and only to be used for V less than 50.
Still find some of the te h guys and sparks use it.
I point blank refuse to touch it.

Does Wikipedia say where in BS7671 it states that.

 

[nicebutdim]

Some of the specs on RS Web site say only to be used as control cable. Which is what it was made for due to the screening.
I have this argument all the time and did find a good back up on Wikipedia which states dose not comply with 7671 and only to be used for V less than 50.
Still find some of the te h guys and sparks use it.
I point blank refuse to touch it.

Control cables aren't limited to ELV.

 

[Dave OCD]

I can't see why anyone would want to use the stuff, it's awful - rightly or wrongly whenever I see some I think a bodger has been around.

 

[nicebutdim]

I can't see why anyone would want to use the stuff, it's awful - rightly or wrongly whenever I see some I think a bodger has been around.

It has its place, but I see no argument in favour of widespread use - especially when that widespread use often seems to be inappropriate.

I can never understand why it pops up in the most unlikely of places. Surely in every one of those instances there was something more suitable in the van?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

1.5mm is the minimum permitted size of cable for a power circuit so there is nothing specifically wrong with that being used for a 16A socket radial.

1.0mm minimum now since amendment 2

 

[nicebutdim]

1.0mm minimum now since amendment 2

I'd missed that.

 

[Fazz711]

Does Wikipedia say where in BS7671 it states that.

N P MHL ust

Does Wikipedia say where in BS7671 it states that.

N o

Does Wikipedia say where in BS7671 it states that.

No just that it Dosnt meet BS7671 for current carrying capacity in fault conditions.

 

[Fazz711]

Control cables aren't limited to ELV.

No but the vast majority of modern control is ELV.
Certainly in factory's

 

[nicebutdim]

No just that it Dosnt meet BS7671 for current carrying capacity in fault conditions.

Would you be comfortable citing Wikipedia as a source for coding on an EICR?

I certainly wouldn't.

No but the vast majority of modern control is ELV.
Certainly in factory's

This is true, but of no relevance.

You cited a dubious source in claiming that control cables are "only to be used for V less than 50" and that is patently untrue. Control cables, as with all cables, are to be used for voltages falling within the cable's specification.

Regardless of whether 95% or 99.99% of control cables are used to carry ELV, they are capable of carrying any voltage within manufacturer's specifcations and for many control cables the maximum voltage rating will fall somewhere within the low voltage band.

 

[Fazz711]

Would you be comfortable citing Wikipedia as a source for coding on an EICR?

I certainly wouldn't.



This is true, but of no relevance.

You cited a dubious source in claiming that control cables are "only to be used for V less than 50" and that is patently untrue. Control cables, as with all cables, are to be used for voltages falling within the cable's specification.

Regardless of whether 95% or 99.99% of control cables are used to carry ELV, they are capable of carrying any voltage within manufacturer's specifcations and for many control cables the maximum voltage rating will fall somewhere within the low voltage band.

Sorry I didn't claim control cables can only be ELV.
Only that SY which was designed as control should only be used for ELV

 

[Lister1987]

Chapter 13 should be all you need no?

132.5 (& 132.7) - External influences, UV exposure (granted indoors may be a stretch)

134.1.1 - Given the plethora of suitable cables, can we really make a case to suggest *Y family of cables is "good workmanship"? HO5/HO7 (or suitably certified BS EN cable ought to be the go to no?

You could no doubt pull some regs from Part 5 in addition but giving fundamental evidence should give you a start point, it's not for that clients to 'like', 'agree' or 'disagree, after all if they had the same engineering judgement as you then why waste money hiring you? My point is they want YOUR findings

Your signature on the paperwork, your balls (or -----...ladies) in the vice when the curly wig comes a knockin' with the gavel.

 

[davesparks]

Problem is that if you Code it finding a Regulation to reference it to. Saying it is not recognised by BS7671 isn't strictly accurate, just because it isn't reference in BS7671 does not mean it is forbidden by them.

I would be looking at 521.9.1 for a start with this one.

Also, as I understand it, a lot of SY cables dont have a BASEC approval or a stated compliance with a British standard.

 

[loz2754]

1.5mm is the minimum permitted size of cable for a power circuit so there is nothing specifically wrong with that being used for a 16A socket radial.

Agreed. In fact, in amendment 2, 1mm² is now permitted for power circuits.

Edit: just realised I'm repeating what's already been stated.

 

[nicebutdim]

Sorry I didn't claim control cables can only be ELV.
Only that SY which was designed as control should only be used for ELV

I don't want this to spiral into an argument, but feel compelled to point out the words to which I was referring. Please accept my apologies if there was some context that I'd missed.

Some of the specs on RS Web site say only to be used as control cable. Which is what it was made for due to the screening.
I have this argument all the time and did find a good back up on Wikipedia which states dose not comply with 7671 and only to be used for V less than 50.
Still find some of the te h guys and sparks use it.
I point blank refuse to touch it.

 

[nicebutdim]

134.1.1 - Given the plethora of suitable cables, can we really make a case to suggest *Y family of cables is "good workmanship"? HO5/HO7 (or suitably certified BS EN cable ought to be the go to no?

There are cables within the "*Y family" that conform to British standards. Is there a reason why you'd dismiss them in favour of HO5/HO7, when in many circumstances they'd be more suited to particular installations?

Edit:

The reg quoted by @davesparks in post #36 makes this very point.

 

[Fazz711]

There are cables within the "*Y family" that conform to British standards. Is there a reason why you'd dismiss them in favour of HO5/HO7, when in many circumstances they'd be more suited to particular installations?

Edit:

The reg quoted by @davesparks in post #36 makes this very point.

What reason would you use them other than shielded control cable when in the proximity of high frequency power cables?