Third party certification

[juanpabs]

Just a query regarding some extra works I'm being sent my way. I've been offered some testing and certifying work to be done at the back of another company and mainly their foreign electrician. The work the electrician is doing I've heard is of a good standard, most of these jobs are small domestic numbers new spots or installation of a shower ect. Now I consider myself competent in testing as it's my day to day works and have both my 2394 and 2395, now clearly I couldn't issue an EIC but is it acceptable to do an EICR concerning the worked on circuits? Also am I clearly opening myself up to a world of pain certifying works at the back of others, what's the opinions of you guys? And also doing the testing and certifying in a third party kind of way for others do I need to be scheme registered?

 

[Guest77]

Might be difficult for the guys to tell you what they think fella, it could be negative replies, not allowed here I am afraid.

 

[pcam1984]

If you were the customer would you be happy if a third party had to certify the work because the installer doesn't have the necessary qualifications and possibly competence?

 

[Leesparkykent]

NAPIT and stoma allow third party certification. My personal opinion is that it's not a good idea putting your name to someone else's work (allowed or not allowed) and I would never do it. As for completing an EICR for the work it doesn't really hold any weight especially if it's a new circuit or work in a special location that's notifiable.

 

[Andy78]

You know that an EICR is the wrong cert to issue for new installation work or alterations.
And I'm guessing you pretty much know the answer to "Should I be taking sole responsibility for the work of a foreign electrician with unknown qualifications and knowledge of UK wiring regs ?"

 

[richy3333]

The OP is in Scotland. I'm assuming the work is too. Only the NIC and SELECT are recognised. Some LA's will accept JIB cards. I'm guessing whoever is employing you will expect certificates regardless of the quality of the work!

 

[tigerpaul]

Dont let yourself be bullied into signing off someone elses work. If the guys that good, why cant he get himself the right qualifications and sign his own work..

I have had this situation recently, where our bosses dad, whose a builder used some of our lads to do the electrical part of an extension. Now the issue of a test cert has come up, the builder has had his money and he's back off up north not giving a ----. The homeowner is now without a cert, and everyones wondering whose going to do to the test for him. I dont know who will do it, all I know is it wont be me..

 

[juanpabs]

Cheers for the replys guys, was pretty much as expected!

Just don't want to turn away work but it seems I could be making more drama for myself than anything else. Will tell the guy to jog on or if he wants works done and signed off he can get me in for the whole lot.

 

[richy3333]

Yeah, sometimes in business its knowing what jobs to turn down rather than those you take on.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

I looked in to this, but I've passed 2394/5 but no hands on and wasn't allowed (what is good, need time in the field to know what you are looking at)
Other points you should be there to watch them install it, person all if you can see the cable from A to B, track it by sight. Then do the testing it should be OK.

A Napit guy I talked to said its for DIYers only (personally it was just the example in part P gave, as a non qualified person to test) also want told that there wasn't really any set paper work for it yep, even though the age of the third part testing (it being in part P so that's 2011 isn't it)

 

[Guest77]

I looked in to this, but I've passed 2394/5 but no hands on and wasn't allowed (what is good, need time in the field to know what you are looking at)
Other points you should be there to watch them install it, person all if you can see the cable from A to B, track it by sight. Then do the testing it should be OK.

A Napit guy I talked to said its for DIYers only (personally it was just the example in part P gave, as a non qualified person to test) also want told that there wasn't really any set paper work for it yep, even though the age of the third part testing (it being in part P so that's 2011 isn't it)

Was he qualified? :rofl:

 

[sparkee]

I have 3rd party certification attached to my NAPIT membership. Now i know its not really the right way of doing things but figured if i dont do it then someone else will and at the end of the day it is a revenue stream. With regards to signing of the certificate as the inspector yoy do not actually sign as the installer... there is a section for the installers details and you are merely aigning to say you have inspected and if required tested all circuits. I internally inspect a ninimum of 20 percent accessories per room and if the quality is poor then i recommend 100 percent to be looked at. All defects have to be noted on certificate and rectified before certficate is issued. All certificates are actually cross checked by your scheme provider to ensure all test results are within expected range.
Hope this helps to clear up any confusion.

 

[newtothis]

I have 3rd party certification attached to my NAPIT membership. Now i know its not really the right way of doing things but figured if i dont do it then someone else will and at the end of the day it is a revenue stream. With regards to signing of the certificate as the inspector yoy do not actually sign as the installer... there is a section for the installers details and you are merely aigning to say you have inspected and if required tested all circuits. I internally inspect a ninimum of 20 percent accessories per room and if the quality is poor then i recommend 100 percent to be looked at. All defects have to be noted on certificate and rectified before certficate is issued. All certificates are actually cross checked by your scheme provider to ensure all test results are within expected range.
Hope this helps to clear up any confusion.

That seems clear. Is it for those with approved contractor status - I mean the 3rd part bolt on ?

 

[sparkee]

I have full scope with NAPIT and been in the trade 18 years. Qualifications are checked and must have 2391 or modern equivalent.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

The way looked at it,as if you were big company with a designer (non qualified person) installers (again same person) and the inspector checking100% of if (periodic is more sample)


You must have the 2391/2394 initial verification plus two years hands on testing
What Napit told me, (but they do change their minds a lot ££££

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

 

[sinewove]

Duane,
Is the 3rd party inspector giving a condition report,rather than an eic because he has not viewed the 1st fix and cable zones?
Regards,SW

 

[7029 dave]

IMO eicr, is not good enough, either an Electrician willing to 3rd party sign off, or LABC will need to do it.

 

[DuaneMHunt1976]

Duane,
Is the 3rd party inspector giving a condition report,rather than an eic because he has not viewed the 1st fix and cable zones?
Regards,SW

Hi Sine
I dont know of ANYONE doing the 3rd Party Inspection, can only say what Ive been TOLD and how i read it myself.

BEEN TOLD, and my Napit Assessor was very strong views on this. (to the point was raisin his voice to me)
This is only for DIYers so it isnt worth doing. (he wasnt keen on me saying how i read it or asking questions)

The way i read it, is the DIYer (it being just a example as the wording says Installer) <just re-reading it>
3.5 i did think said that a INSTALLER had to get a 3rd Party to come around before its sealed in or placed in Conduit, and see the plan's of the cables runs and area around the said cables.
But now i read it as they just have to Tap a 3rd Party Test and tell them they are doing some work

3.6 I am getting lost as it talks of EICR, but i was told and i think it would be more logical a PIC
If i had to do a EICR i would think seeing it before hand and then test it later when all sealed in.

3.7 Standard with Test Reports