What will help me understand and pass my 2391-52?

[ppelec100]

Hi guys,

I’m looking to book my testing and inspection 2391-52, I have very limited experience on testing. I have completed my AM2 and the testing part was pretty easy.

Of course the 2391 will be more in depth etc and I’ve been hitting the books going through guidance note 3 and bs7671 and I’ve got The practical guide to inspection, testing and certification of electrical installations by Christopher kitcher which I will be going through.

Was thinking of putting a CU and some sockets switches lights etc on a bit of ply and wiring it up and have a go at just adding faults or getting someone else to and trying to find the faults

I’ve been watching mainly electrical on YouTube and paid for the subscription to get his full videos and have learnt quite a bit so far.

Might look at buying the napit EICR codebreakers…

What else can I add/do to gain more knowledge?

What are things in the exam that I might find quite tricky that I should try and cover or things that are basic but catch people out?

Any other tips?

Thanks

 

[westward10]

A lot of this comes down to knowledge and experience.
You have a multi-choice exam, written exam and a Coding paper where you Code faults. You then have the practical where the time allowed will fly by.

 

[ppelec100]

A lot of this comes down to knowledge and experience.
You have a multi-choice exam, written exam and a Coding paper where you Code faults. You then have the practical where the time allowed will fly by.

Thanks for the reply.

I feel like I might have enough knowledge but lack the experience but I know they do practical prep days which I think is for 2 days

What does the practical consist of?

 

[westward10]

The practical exam consists of doing an EICR and EIC. Faults will have been introduced and for the EIC you have to explain what it is, possible cause and how it should be rectified at which point if answered correctly the tutor removes the fault so you can continue because an EIC cannot be completed until all faults are rectified. The EICR follows the same procedure except the fault is not rectified by the tutor, you stop doing any further tests for that circuit and Code it as necessary in the final Report.
The set up is a three phase board and a single phase board next to each other but the scenario in your head is one board is in another room so you must not leave the cover removed from one board and work on the other.
You have to complete the paperwork for the EIC and EICR and both cover less than 10 circuits, the EICR will only be from one board the EIC covers both unless things have changed.

 

[ppelec100]

The practical exam consists of doing an EICR and EIC. Faults will have been introduced and for the EIC you have to explain what it is, possible cause and how it should be rectified at which point if answered correctly the tutor removes the fault so you can continue because an EIC cannot be completed until all faults are rectified. The EICR follows the same procedure except the fault is not rectified by the tutor, you stop doing any further tests for that circuit and Code it as necessary in the final Report.
The set up is a three phase board and a single phase board next to each other but the scenario in your head is one board is in another room so you must not leave the cover removed from one board and work on the other.
You have to complete the paperwork for the EIC and EICR and both cover less than 10 circuits, the EICR will only be from one board the EIC covers both unless things have changed.

Thanks mate this helps a lot, especially with the 2 board but real life scenario they being in separate rooms

 

[Mike Johnson]

Buy this and inwardly digest: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Practical-Inspection-Certification-Electrical-Installations/dp/1138613320

 

[ppelec100]

Buy this and inwardly digest: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Practical-Inspection-Certification-Electrical-Installations/dp/1138613320

Thanks for the recommendation I have already got it and finished it last week. Going to go over it again with GN3 again and make notes for each section

 

[Tom256]

What are things in the exam that I might find quite tricky that I should try and cover or things that are basic but catch people out?

I have the 2391-52

For the written there will almost certainly be a question where you have to set out the steps for a process for example testing an earth rod. What ever you're asked it would have been covered = make notes.

Basics that catch people out - you lock off the board, confirm dead, the instructor asks for the key to the lock off padlock

Keep the bay tidy at all times you are a professional person. Treat the instruments and leads as life saving instruments, on completion of the practical leave the bay and instrument / leads / tools as you found them.

Record all your readings and write clearly for you will need all the readings for completion of the paperwork which you may be asked to do after leaving the test bay. I have seen people complete the inspection / test then go away to write up and cannot make out what they wrote or realise they never noted down a reading. Remember : Your are in a skilled role act that way at all times during the practical.
Practice - Practice - Practice filling out the paperwork so you know what information you need and how to take it.

Easy to forget to check the size of the Earthing conductor on the test set-up. You need the size for the paperwork

Know the order of tests on the initital verification aspect. Know the importance of why tests are conducted in the order and way they are. How do you test your RCD - what are the steps ?

On the fault coding with the pictures it is easy to freeze and see everything and yet nothing. This one takes practice and yes benefits from lots of experience.
Practice with pictures from on-line images of the type used in code-breakers. Practice putting into words using objective language the defect.
Some pictures have no defect do not be afraid to record such. Confidence in your observations after all that is what we be asked of you on-site.

 

[westward10]

Under no circumstances give the lock off key to the tutor.

 

[Tom256]

Under no circumstances give the lock off key to the tutor.

Seen it happen though and it catches many out.
And on that point you MUST know safe isolation. Indeed a written exam qestion could be 'Set out the steps for safe Isolation?'

The way to think about this is treat it as you would on-site, in an industrial location say where permits rule and unsafe working practice would have you removed from the building. Observe safe practice and be confident will go a long way. Make the instructor comfortable that you are safe

 

[ppelec100]

Under no circumstances give the lock off key to the tutor.

Yeah I was just thinking that, you also don’t leave it lying around, it goes in your own pocket for your own safety

 

[ppelec100]

I have the 2391-52

For the written there will almost certainly be a question where you have to set out the steps for a process for example testing an earth rod. What ever you're asked it would have been covered = make notes.

Basics that catch people out - you lock off the board, confirm dead, the instructor asks for the key to the lock off padlock

Keep the bay tidy at all times you are a professional person. Treat the instruments and leads as life saving instruments, on completion of the practical leave the bay and instrument / leads / tools as you found them.

Record all your readings and write clearly for you will need all the readings for completion of the paperwork which you may be asked to do after leaving the test bay. I have seen people complete the inspection / test then go away to write up and cannot make out what they wrote or realise they never noted down a reading. Remember : Your are in a skilled role act that way at all times during the practical.
Practice - Practice - Practice filling out the paperwork so you know what information you need and how to take it.

Easy to forget to check the size of the Earthing conductor on the test set-up. You need the size for the paperwork

Know the order of tests on the initital verification aspect. Know the importance of why tests are conducted in the order and way they are. How do you test your RCD - what are the steps ?

On the fault coding with the pictures it is easy to freeze and see everything and yet nothing. This one takes practice and yes benefits from lots of experience.
Practice with pictures from on-line images of the type used in code-breakers. Practice putting into words using objective language the defect.
Some pictures have no defect do not be afraid to record such. Confidence in your observations after all that is what we be asked of you on-site.

Thank you mate this is very detailed and helps me out quite a lot, especially with the rod question.

I’m planning on setting up a little test rig at home with a bit of ply, rcd cu I got lying around, about 5/6 sockets on a ring with a spur too, maybe 2/3 sockets on a radial, a lighting circuit with 1 light 2 way switch and 1 light 2 way intermediate… I’m confident with initial verification of it but I want to introduce faults to try and locate and understand them. (Will ask someone to put faults in for increased confusion)…

Could you recommend I add anything else to the test rig?

 

[Tom256]

Thank you mate this is very detailed and helps me out quite a lot, especially with the rod question.

I’m planning on setting up a little test rig at home with a bit of ply, rcd cu I got lying around, about 5/6 sockets on a ring with a spur too, maybe 2/3 sockets on a radial, a lighting circuit with 1 light 2 way switch and 1 light 2 way intermediate… I’m confident with initial verification of it but I want to introduce faults to try and locate and understand them. (Will ask someone to put faults in for increased confusion)…

Could you recommend I add anything else to the test rig?

The test will include [perhaps] a three phase circuit a motor say now how you would test such? what are you looking to confirm on such a set of tests and how would you go about this in a logical sequence?
What would you do about devices sensitive to test voltages?
What about bonding would you test such, when would you test such?

Part of the secret to passing the 2391 practical is DO NOT go looking for faults. Sounds weird ? It is not the key is to just test in a logical sequence, know what results you should be achieving, know what could influence the test then trust your observations / results and the faults will jump out at you.
I will repeat the point of 'know the results you should be achieving'. How would you verify the readings you have taken are correct for the circuit under test?

The point of this post is to understand the why and you will know the best sequence.

 

[ppelec100]

The test will include [perhaps] a three phase circuit a motor say now how you would test such? what are you looking to confirm on such a set of tests and how would you go about this in a logical sequence?
What would you do about devices sensitive to test voltages?
What about bonding would you test such, when would you test such?

Part of the secret to passing the 2391 practical is DO NOT go looking for faults. Sounds weird ? It is not the key is to just test in a logical sequence, know what results you should be achieving, know what could influence the test then trust your observations / results and the faults will jump out at you.

The point of this post is to understand the why and you will know the best sequence.

Will they go through all of these things during the course? The centres seem to say they only focus on the theory side and not practical but there are practical prep days which I will pay for…

I haven’t got much experience on three phase circuits but I understand it but motors I have no experience at all except for college and exams

 

[westward10]

The motor circuit is normally and triple pole and neutral socket for a motor. They should demonstrate the testing and sequence of tests and give you practice time, the sequence is important to remember.

 

[Tom256]

Will they go through all of these things during the course? The centres seem to say they only focus on the theory side and not practical but there are practical prep days which I will pay for…

I haven’t got much experience on three phase circuits but I understand it but motors I have no experience at all except for college and exams

The motor circuit is normally and triple pole and neutral socket for a motor. They should demonstrate the testing and sequence of tests and give you practice time, the sequence is important to remember.

Yes they should demonstrate and it is not a motor it is a motor circuit.

So for example initial verification of a motor circuit, never been live you are the guy coming in to verify. What might be some of the issues that could affect how that circuit perform correctly - motor rotation say?
They should go through all this but that aside you now in your own time have a think if you were the inspector what are the possible issues, how would you run the tests to identify those possible issues.

How would you test through a DOL starter?

 

[Tom256]

Will they go through all of these things during the course? The centres seem to say they only focus on the theory side and not practical but there are practical prep days which I will pay for…

I haven’t got much experience on three phase circuits but I understand it but motors I have no experience at all except for college and exams

That is true it is not really a practical class it is expected you have some knowledge of practical testing before the class.
I do a lot of industrial testing and the basics get you through. Understand the process of what you are looking to achieve with each bank of tests. They have a sequence for a reason.
As I said in an earlier post - Testing of an RCD - as an exercise write out the way you would go about this, why you are doing it as you are.

 

[richy3333]

I've done the old and new 2391. On the new one less that 30% of people passed the theory so didn’t continue on to the practical. The course does assume you are confident with testing for the practical side of things. There is no training on how to use a test meter etc

For the theory exam some of the questions I had built upon a previous answer. There was a lot of maths and calculations to do. You might have a (say) 4 or 5 part answer section and if your answer to question 1 is wrong it might make your subsequent answers to the remainder of the section wrong also because you have to rely on data you have calculated.

The practical - there’s a 3 phase board. It feeds a single phase board but also has other circuits off it. A motor circuit, sockets and lighting, plus some FP200 for a fire alarm feed. The single phase DB has sockets and lights on them with various switching scenarios. Fill in your EICR and EIC as you progress as there’s little time for doing all the work.

I used my own tools and tester which was fine.

 

[Tom256]

I've done the old and new 2391. On the new one less that 30% of people passed the theory so didn’t continue on to the practical. The course does assume you are confident with testing for the practical side of things. There is no training on how to use a test meter etc

For the theory exam some of the questions I had built upon a previous answer. There was a lot of maths and calculations to do. You might have a (say) 4 or 5 part answer section and if your answer to question 1 is wrong it might make your subsequent answers to the remainder of the section wrong also because you have to rely on data you have calculated.

The practical - there’s a 3 phase board. It feeds a single phase board but also has other circuits off it. A motor circuit, sockets and lighting, plus some FP200 for a fire alarm feed. The single phase DB has sockets and lights on them with various switching scenarios. Fill in your EICR and EIC as you progress as there’s little time for doing all the work.

I used my own tools and tester which was fine.

I think the point made here on knowing the calculations for verification of results etc is a good one.
With one question leading onto the next not knowng one aspect could cost your several questions.

That said know the basics well and your can fly through it.
I took mine in Glasgow, during the winter and during the period I was moving to Yorkshire. I drove back to Glasgow the morning of the Test ready for it starting at 10 am. 2 hours usual stuff, however, snow was forecast from early afterrnon over the Pennines and I did not have time for getting stuck. Had it done in 20 minutes and gone. The looks.