Business Growth

[mstrant100]

Hi,

Just signed up to the forum, never posted before just looking for some similar minded trades advice.

I started my electrical contracting business 5 years ago, after woking for a company for 8 years before. Business is going well I'm busy, getting work for myself and have a steady flow of work from a local building on extensions, house refebishments.

Im looking at taking some one on but have a real worry about keeping the flow of work busy enough for an apprentice that im having to train and my self. Im meter of a couple of your generic online platforms that I can increase work load on but I have been working for many years just having to keep myself busy, im worried about having to pay an apprentice that doesn't know engh to be left on there own if I have blank days etc.

Jut wanted to hear if any one has any advise on there stories and whether you paid apprentice on a self employs day rate etc??

Im wanting to take the next step for my business but having hesitation, just wanted to hear how other people went about it??

Thanks for any comments, interested to hear,

Cheers

 

[Megawatt]

Hi,

Just signed up to the forum, never posted before just looking for some similar minded trades advice.

I started my electrical contracting business 5 years ago, after woking for a company for 8 years before. Business is going well I'm busy, getting work for myself and have a steady flow of work from a local building on extensions, house refebishments.

Im looking at taking some one on but have a real worry about keeping the flow of work busy enough for an apprentice that im having to train and my self. Im meter of a couple of your generic online platforms that I can increase work load on but I have been working for many years just having to keep myself busy, im worried about having to pay an apprentice that doesn't know engh to be left on there own if I have blank days etc.

Jut wanted to hear if any one has any advise on there stories and whether you paid apprentice on a self employs day rate etc??

Im wanting to take the next step for my business but having hesitation, just wanted to hear how other people went about it??

Thanks for any comments, interested to hear,

Cheers

@mstrant I’m form the US but when I had my business it was always stressful you having to be on your current job and training someone which leaves you in a bind because you need to be looking for next several jobs. It’s a bad situation but you really need a GOOD electrician so you don’t have to on the job every working hour of everyday. Good luck and welcome to the forum. Someone should be around shortly and actually help you

 

[123]

An apprentice needs to be under a contract of employment, and can't be self employed working for you.

 

[Megawatt]

An apprentice needs to be under a contract of employment, and can't be self employed working for you.

I told you I was from the US and I really couldn’t help you but thought I would share a story with you and I know absolutely nothing about how the UK does things sorry

 

[GMES]

I've had quite a few apprentices over the years and if I'm honest I wouldn't have another, certainly not a brand new one. I would now look for an electricians mate, I've got a few qualified lads and if the apprentice isnt right or just causes havoc because they dont want to work with them.
I'm not saying all are bad , I've probably had 5 with only one being any good.im sure there are good ones but it can be an hard slog finding the right one. They can also be false economy because you only get 4 days out of them with college release, you'll probably have to kit them out with clothes and tools etc. They've got all the same rights has anyone else and you cant just get rid because you dont like them.
If I want to add to my team it will be a mate or another qualified guy that can get chucked in a van on his own from day one.
Having said all that, if you're lucky enough to find a good one you can mould them to exactly how you want them.

 

[christhescott]

How much does an apprentice get paid now, probably not much, £5 an hour or so? I'm sure when I was an apprentice there was some kind of government subsidy but this might not be the case now. If you get a good one then surely he/she can be left on jobs doing simple tasks while you do paper work or price jobs etc? I think its important to remember you wont be the first person to be going through this and having these doubts but if others can and do make it work then so can you.

 

[GMES]

Depending on age its minimum wage, so my last one was about 7.40 pr hr, Gov incentives have gone out the window and now depending on their age you can get a bill for 10 or 15 percent of their college fees. Which is thousands.
It seems all geared towards the Apprentice now and nothing towards the employer.
At 7.40 per hour and knowing nothing only doing 4 days but getting paid for 40 hours they can quickly become an expensive tool carrier ??

 

[Dustydazzler]

An apprentice needs to be under a contract of employment, and can't be self employed working for you.

Agree , otherwise its just hired labour
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A guy I know started an electrical ship in September and has already quit the trade saying it was boring

 

[mstrant100]

Hi all,

Thanks for the reply and experience. Completely understand what you are are saying ad these were my worries about paying an apprentice min wage when they are straight out of college when you are having to be tough everything from scratch. will be slowing down my turn around on jobs rather than speeding it up to start with. Under stand that once there are trained they will be beneficial.

Id be interested to hear other growth stories if people want to share how they juggled teaching apprentice/ mates along with gathering the extra work in?

 

[Midwest]

I subbied for a guy that employed some guys as mates & apprentice. The apprentice was paying for his own tuition, but he chipped in. When the apprentice qualified, he promptly left. I can understand people need to spread their wings, but you can understand it doesn't make business sense for very small companies.

I recall back myself as an apprentice, yonks ago. Made up my mind to leave soon after my apprenticeship finished. But that was because I was abused by the company, sent out on my own to work, two years in and had to use my own car doing various small jobs all over the place. Asked for a company van, and they said no. So I left.

 

[Dustydazzler]

I think for al lot of apprentices they get paid around £45 a day and are happy doing this for a short while.
But soon realise once they have a bit of site experience they can earn more on their own or get better rates as a subby to a different company.

 

[Gavin John Hyde]

I have had a few calls the last couple of weeks from people looking for apprenticeships.
One sounded right miserable didn't even say anything other than do you do apprenticeships mate?.
Only person who I actually think presented themselves well in a call to follow up an email was a 18 year old girl, was polite and offered to work for free to get experience if I cant offer an apprenticeship right now. She was only one who offered that.
Have kept her details and will get her to chip in on a rewire in new year. will pay her a fair wage for being labourer/mate for the job.
It has left me thinking what I do in the coming year or so, expand and take somebody on or avoid the aggro and admin it brings?
Thing is at the moment I am turning work away as i am literally booked up until Christmas. New year might be quiet?
With any apprentice there attitude is worth more than anything they learn at college or think they already know.

 

[Hemingway]

Why do you need an apprentice. If you want to build up your business use a self employed spark. That way you can meet any additional work load. I have several who I can call upon. Cos I pay them good money they usually get to me ASAP. I have had several bad experience with apprentices. Although I have 2 sparks working for me who I trained. I put them through college with all the relevant costs. When they were fully trained I made certain they were paid top wages they are still with me after fifteen years. Good luck with your business expansion. Remember the golden rule don’t work for bad/late payment clients. Someway down the track they will fail to pay you, trust me I found out the hard way.

 

[SparkyAndGeorge]

Why do you need an apprentice. If you want to build up your business use a self employed spark. That way you can meet any additional work load. I have several who I can call upon. Cos I pay them good money they usually get to me ASAP. I have had several bad experience with apprentices. Although I have 2 sparks working for me who I trained. I put them through college with all the relevant costs. When they were fully trained I made certain they were paid top wages they are still with me after fifteen years. Good luck with your business expansion. Remember the golden rule don’t work for bad/late payment clients. Someway down the track they will fail to pay you, trust me I found out the hard way.

What bad experiences did you have with apprentices? I had a couple of trials over the years and the lack of passion to learn and drive I saw have put me off for the future. I know you cant judge an entire generation by the actions of a few but I doubt I would try with one again.

 

[Hemingway]

What bad experiences did you have with apprentices? I had a couple of trials over the years and the lack of passion to learn and drive I saw have put me off for the future. I know you cant judge an entire generation by the actions of a few but I doubt I would try with one again.

One apprentice claimed to have fallen from a stepladder a complete lie. Got legal aid claiming damages, my insurance company deemed it cheaper to pay out than go to court. Another lad never attended college for several months, the college never informed me so I had paid out his wages all the time he was absent.

 

[richy3333]

Don’t know if any of these ramblings help:
I was in a similar situation a few years back. I took on a chap, mid 20’s as a labourer with a view to an apprenticeship if things worked out. So for the first year he subbed to me. It worked out well so we sorted out an apprenticeship for him. I’m in Scotland so don’t know if any of this is different in England. SECTT run the apprenticeship scheme here. I am required to pay him SJIB rates and he has to be an employee. His college work is block release so I can easily plan for it. I have a large contingent of very loyal (mainly commercial) customers and they have been so helpful/flexible with job scheduling. They’ve also followed him/us on the training journey. However sods law dictates that the urgent weekend/night work comes in when he’s at college!

He’s paid well, above JIB rates and I’ve looked after him with tools and the like. He’s probably kitted out better than a lot of qualified sparks. He’s now doing small simple and straightforward jobs himself and gaining confidence. That frees me up to do other work or paperwork. We had a couple of quiet weeks in the summer so he helped out on other stuff (non electrical) for me. Other than that get your apprentice delivering leaflets etc in quiet times. Mine appreciates that it’s in his interest to positively contribute to the company because it keeps him employed. I doubt he’ll leave once qualified, at least I hope he doesn’t. I’m now looking to take someone else on.

From an admin point I have a book keeper that does wages etc and keeps me right about law/pensions etc. It only costs me about £20 per month to do that. SECTT have also been very helpful with information.