Christ on a bike, the curse of the Electrical Trainee

[partypest]

I am a charitable person. I mean i'm happy to help someone out if they're up for helping themselves. But I have just discovered my limit.

A few months ago, I got a letter from a guy serving in the forces who was looking for an apprentice position. His letter was bloody awful and his CV was full of absolute rubbish that nobody cares about. As a former soldier myself, I email the guy and told him I didn't have a position, but i'd help him with his letters and CV. He rang me immediately to arrange to come round. He was a little bit forward, but like I said, I did genuinely want to help him.

The guy was a bit shot away (as we used to say in the mob), but I felt his heart was in the right place for the job. I was a little alarmed that he'd decided to retrain as a spark because he'd put in an outside light at home and thought he had a flair for it. I won't go in to the detail about his installation methods, but he told me he was going "on a course". I hoped that he'd take everything i'd said on board, and wished him well for his future.

Blow me down if I didn't hear from him the other day. Asking for my help again. Only this time, it turns out he's set up a business, in my area, as a spark. That's fair enough, I set up in "someone's patch" I guess, but I didn't call them for help with a simple lightswitch problem. This is the same guy who, only a few months ago, was attempting to become an apprentice. All of a sudden, he's a qualified spark?

This guy genuinely believes that three weeks in a classroom, learning how to pass online C&G exams, means he's a professional electrician. Even I don't think that, I've been an engineer for 20+ years, and every day is still a school day.

I worry that he'll get hurt, or worse, hurt someone else. I also worry that people are paying him to 'learn on the job' in their homes.

I know what those courses are like, I know how much they can teach in that time, and it's no more than you'd need to wire a new build. They can't teach anything about previous Edition's, and if he's not on a scheme, none of this work he's doing will get inspected at any time.

I know we've all heard this before, but his level of self belief scares me.

 

[jimmymac]

A lot of squaddies are doing short courses which are funded by the MOD as part of there redundancy

 

[Marvo]

Don't worry, by the sound of things he'll probably be phoning you again with the new legislation in the coming weeks to sign off his jobs for him.

 

[partypest]

Yeah, it's on their resettlement. I met a load when I did my 17th last year. Most had ambitions to do kitchens or bathrooms etc. None, that I can recall, believed they'd be an electrician in three weeks. The guy i'm talking about is a lunatic.

 

[partypest]

Marvo, there is no way, on this earth, that I would sign off someone else's work. If I didn't see the erection (snigger) method first hand, I won't put my name to it. As for that chap, his number's blocked now!

 

[jimmymac]

Yeah, it's on their resettlement. I met a load when I did my 17th last year. Most had ambitions to do kitchens or bathrooms etc. None, that I can recall, believed they'd be an electrician in three weeks. The guy i'm talking about is a lunatic.

That's what he will have been told by the course provider, it's part of there sales patter

 

[Amp David]

Don't worry, by the sound of things he'll probably be phoning you again with the new legislation in the coming weeks to sign off his jobs for him.

Yeah, after you've forked out you hard earned to register as a 3rd party certifier!

 

[Engineer54]

Perhaps it may be a good idea to bring this guy or even better, a scheme registered Electrical Trainee, to one of those parliamentary committee meetings, to show them first hand what these scams are classifying as ''Competent'' so-called DI's!! Nothing better than seeing first hand. A few simple questions will tell the committee everything they want, or need to know!! lol!!

 

[Smudge]

I was a 'spark' in the army for 5 years. We spent a year in the classroom getting up to speed with physics, maths and electrical theory. This included time in the booths (as it is in civy street) learning techniques for containment etc. Once this was done, i was sent to my unit as the 'spark', but to be honest, i did little more than change lamps. When i got out, i was under the full misunderstanding that i was a qualified spark as you got some c & g competences and had passed the AM2. Luckily, (even though i didn't think so at the time), i came home to Scotland, and i was laughed at by every company that i applied for a job with. I found a small company in Edinburgh that was willing to take me on as an apprentice and with approval, let me skip the first year as i had completed most of the relevant classroom stuff. I think its worked out well in the long run, but i do believe it seems a lot easier south of the border to start up as a spark without the proper training, as up here, i was literally laughed at. I don't blame the squaddies for this as you are genuinely told that you are getting a trade, and these course providers brainwash you on your resettlement package as it is a certain cash cow for them.

I am not even ashamed to admit, i am unclear of what the relevant qualifications are to be spark outside of having a recognized apprenticeship. I now interview people for vacant electricians jobs on site, and if they haven't had an apprenticeship, or the proper form of adult training, i don't even look at them. Harsh? Don't really care!

 

[jimmymac]

That's my point Smudge. It's not the squaddies fault. They are told that they WILL be qualified electricians after completing the short course and truth be told, it's what they want to hear so why wouldn't they believe it? It's unfair and dishonest but as long as the cash keeps coming then the course providers are happy

 

[dingledong]

i agree with both of you !! the money they are making in ratio with what they teach is shocking
i have had 3 wanna be sparks that would phone me up and i would give them advice but two gave up and the third earns a fortune bustard

 

[Smudge]

just read my comment through, and it may look like i did one of these short courses as resettlement...i never. I was a class 2 military electrician (whatever that is meant to mean!) in the Royal Engineers. But when i was leaving, i was offered all these 4,5,6 week courses. I never took them cause i had just become a dad so skyved off and had an extra long holiday!

The Army to their credit, did teach me 2 things though...how to live rough, and how to run fast with a hangover from hell. Essential for the life as a tramp they leave you to. But at least you will have your trade certificates to burn for heat.

 

[MDJ]

The guy i'm talking about is a lunatic.

His name isn't David Cockburn by any chance is it?

 

[partypest]

No. But i'm not naming names either. They guy's a cock though, seriously, couldn't work out a light switch, it wasn't even a strapper!

 

[Kate]

How come noone talks about the younger lads who do fulltime college for (I think) two years?? End up with more qualifications than I did after an apprenticeship.

Shocking. First I met could only be trusted to 2nd fix sockets on his own. He was tasked with putting up dado in an office. Did one wall, started the next that had a window slightly lower than the first wall of trunking. Didnt readjust it all!! Put the next lot on and used the joiners to hide the gaps because it wasnt level!!

Another lad. Managed to score a majority rewire of a 3bed. Had help from a qualified spark pulling in cables. 2nd fixing himself. Sockets for bedrooms put at skirting board level..new circuit no existing ones left in the rooms. Living room lighting...he left as is. BUT I pulled up a floorboard to route cables to DB...I took up one board about a foot long that he had already had up, 5 JBs, and 3 sets of connector blocks. Traced it all the switch wires came out of JB about 6inches later joined again with connectorblocks. Earths under the jbs twisted together no sleeving. Cut off at connector blocks. Used metal switches. Recommended he rewire. Left it a month before going back and now its partially decorated..rang to ask me if I knew how to turn one way switching into two without adding wires. New switching installed..put in ready at 1200mm mark, 2 other switching points existing in room higher up.

 

[Risteard]

They can't teach anything about previous Edition's

Why would he/she need to be familiar with non-current Editions of the Wiring Regs?

 

[partypest]

Because having knowledge of previous practise is pretty fundamental, in my humble opinion.

 

[GLENNSPARK]

Don't worry, by the sound of things he'll probably be phoning you again with the new legislation in the coming weeks to sign off his jobs for him.

yeah well none of this is funny really ...is it marvo..

and what is especially not funny about it all ..is how the MOD think its acceptable to just shove those that laid their lives down for queen & country on a short course with a handwave and a...."cheerio...we`v done our bit" kind of mantra..
not acceptable.
what the MOD should be doing is getting these ex-servicemen on proper3 year college courses....together with a meaningful placement

its an absolute disgrace...
absolute disgrace...

 

[Smudge]

yeah well none of this is funny really ...is it marvo..

and what is especially not funny about it all ..is how the MOD think its acceptable to just shove those that laid their lives down for queen & country on a short course with a handwave and a...."cheerio...we`v done our bit" kind of mantra..
not acceptable.
what the MOD should be doing is getting these ex-servicemen on proper3 year college courses....together with a meaningful placement

its an absolute disgrace...
absolute disgrace...

The MOD give you a kitty for resettlement packages, and you go to open days. The courses range from everything you would normally see at a careers fair. From plumbing, sparky, cake baking, business courses etc etc. Once you choose your course, the MOD basically sign it off to say they are willing to pay for it. I'm not in any way justifying it, but its not entirely their fault. They too are not electricians and will be conned into thinking these are legitimate courses to make the squaddies fully qualified.

And to be brutally honest, these courses, by the letter of the law, give the relevant quals to legally start up on their own? I'M NOT JUSTIFYING THIS IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM, but surely its more to do with the electrical governing bodies (SJIB, JIB) etc etc to give full clarification of what should be required.

I don't know that much about it, so correct me if i am wrong, i can only talk through my experiences.

 

[partypest]

Smudge, i'm with you all the way. The law is an ---, and these courses conform to the minimum requirements recognised. Unless the law changes, there's nothing that can be done, and so far as I can see, these courses are only advertised as "Domestic Installer" courses. The law does protect the public from rogue traders who would do notifiable work, not notify it and therefore not have it inspected. But the law is unpoliced, and if the public don't know that, and don't know to expect a letter after work is notified, then the failing is at that point. I hate to say it, but unless the government starts giving a damn and educates the public, that is not going to change. Just as a point of note, whenever I visit a new customer for a quote, I always have a look at what work's been done. When I discover something that would've been notifiable, I'll ask them if they got a letter after it was done. Most times, and I mean most, the answer is no. I see the sticker the previous spark has slapped on with their phone number. I know of them in most cases, and know who they're with. It would be a huge coincidence if either all those letters got lost in the post or if all those clients forgot they got one. So, not only are there Electrical Trainee doing work that's not going to get looked at, there's time served scheme members cutting corners too. Our industry can't police this, and i'm not blowing a whistle when I have my doubts, this needs to be driven by public education, in my humble opinion.