Consumer Unit Change

[Pat H]

Good tip about taking photos. It also uses up some of his time while he looks at them.
The more you fill his time on your terms the less he can grill you.

 

[Midwest]

Congrats' Nickj, are you having that beer now? Re the photos, its a useful thing to do. The Elecsa on-line certs (probably the other schemes do) allow you to upload pics, notes etc, to store with the certificate. You can add the pics to the cert, if you so wish, or just keep them there for whatever reason. Just useful to cover yourself sometimes. I always take a pic for example of the inside of a CU when I do a change, just in case someone else comes along after me

 

[TheCodboy]

Hi Guys,

Attached are my forms. Would appreciate it if you could check to see if I've ticked the correct boxes and my results look ok.

One other cause for concern is item 7.7 on the schedule of inspections.

The earthing conductor present before the board change was 6mm and so it needed to be upgraded to at least 10mm (tails are 16mm). I upgraded to 16mm.

I did not realise at the time that the tails and earthing conductor were 3 core.

It was not possible for me to bring the new earthing conductor along the same path as the 3 core cable without a lot of chasing.

I opted to bring the new earthing conductor into the house by a different route aided with trunking and fire clips where needed.

All circuits and tails were chased when installed (some 40 years ago) and entered the old fuse board through the back. I have brought all those cables through the back of the new consumer unit however I could not (without chasing and running the risk of damaging the already installed cabling) bring the new earthing conductor in through the rear.

I have read varying opinions on this with some saying it is ok for the earthing conductor to enter through a separate hole of the consumer unit (with some saying niceic advise that it doesnt apply to meter tails and earthign conductor so long as meter tails L & N enter same hole) and some saying it's not ok and should be noted as a deviation from the regs.

What would you guys do for assessment purposes? Would you enter it as a deviation? Would an assessor accept a deviation like this?

Sincere thanks to you all for the help so far

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I realise this thread is a few months old,but im going in for my Stroma assessment soon and was wondering a few things. If its just a CU,tails and earthing change,on the form "comments about existing installation" should some reference be made about your prior checks and testing to the exsisiting circuits before you started the CU change?

 

[Nickj]

Hi thecodboy,

Firstly good luck with your assessment! Stressful times.

There is no requirement to test the circuits before you change the board. I absolutely always do but only to find problems before the board change and be properly prepared.

You will be testing all circuits before connecting them to new board and as long as the results are satisfactory then you have all the information needed for the eic.

If you did a pre board change eicr I see no reason not to show and discuss wth assessor however the information will be duplicated in the eic.

Nick

 

[Wilko]

Comment about existing might be - estimated age and general condition of the installation, last inspection (hah), location of any drawings (hah) any faults and fixes.

 

[TheCodboy]

Hi thecodboy,

Firstly good luck with your assessment! Stressful times.

There is no requirement to test the circuits before you change the board. I absolutely always do but only to find problems before the board change and be properly prepared.

You will be testing all circuits before connecting them to new board and as long as the results are satisfactory then you have all the information needed for the eic.

If you did a pre board change eicr I see no reason not to show and discuss wth assessor however the information will be duplicated in the eic.

Nick

I've been hearing some tales from forum posts here and on others, That Stroma say you must complete an EICR before changing a board. Now I have the relevant Initial Verification qual but no Eicr quals. Im not looking to carry out Periodics at the moment as most of the work i will be doing is mostly Minor works or CU changes, altering rings etc. The way i've always looked at it was, that as long as you test the circuits before you change the CU and energise then thats fine. If the results all comply of course!!

 

[Midwest]

There is a thread on this EICR before EIC debacle, allegedly implied by Stroma, can't be arsed to find it!

No it's not required, otherwise the customer will be paying another £200 (or whatever), before paying for their CU change.

 

[TheCodboy]

There is a thread on this EICR before EIC debacle, allegedly implied by Stroma, can't be arsed to find it!

No it's not required, otherwise the customer will be paying another £200 (or whatever), before paying for their CU change.

So just to be clear, as i thought, Initial verification is more than adequate with relevant test sheets. I've seen quite a few different discussions about this and some people say yes it does and just as many say no!!!

 

[Des 56]

So just to be clear, as i thought, Initial verification is more than adequate with relevant test sheets. I've seen quite a few different discussions about this and some people say yes it does and just as many say no!!!

No it's not required, otherwise the customer will be paying another £200 (or whatever), before paying for their CU change.

There,I made the correct answer a little larger in case the message got lost in transit

 

[Octopus]

No it's not required, otherwise the customer will be paying another £200 (or whatever), before paying for their CU change.

There,I made the correct answer a little larger in case the message got lost in transit

I HAVE to disagree ... there are premises where I insist on doing an EICR before I contemplate doing any work, let alone a CU change!

 

[TheCodboy]

No it's not required, otherwise the customer will be paying another £200 (or whatever), before paying for their CU change.

There,I made the correct answer a little larger in case the message got lost in transit

Im going to get this reply tattoo'd on my arm to show the Stroma guy

 

[Octopus]

Im going to get this reply tattoo'd on my arm to show the Stroma guy

Best you read post # 170 before you book to get your tatoo.

 

[TheCodboy]

I HAVE to disagree ... there are premises where I insist on doing an EICR before I contemplate doing any work, let alone a CU change!

A full EICR?? Surely

Best you read post # 170 before you book to get your tatoo.

To late, got the stencil done now....

 

[Des 56]

I HAVE to disagree ... there are premises where I insist on doing an EICR before I contemplate doing any work, let alone a CU change!

What your personal procedure for doing any work is entirely your choice
"Required" is a word that demands an action and in the case of installing a consumer unit it does not apply

 

[Midwest]

A monstrous mansion aka Trump Towers (bit of an execration), Mrs Miggins 3 bed semi, no way hosay

 

[Octopus]

What your personal procedure for doing any work is entirely your choice
"Required" is a word that demands an action and in the case of installing a consumer unit it does not apply

Agree - "required" its not but in certain situations definitely a good idea.

Its down to judgement - I started a full EICR once and after 2 circuits I stopped and told the client he needed a rewire...

 

[Des 56]

Agree - "required" its not but in certain situations definitely a good idea.

Its down to judgement - I started a full EICR once and after 2 circuits I stopped and told the client he needed a rewire...

I 100% agree with you, I have been known to do a DesEicr on many occasions

 

[TheCodboy]

So am I getting this tattoo or not......

 

[Nickj]

The tattoo sounds like a great idea.

It's not required, all that is required is that you change the consumer unit in accordance with bs7671 and that any and all circuits you connect to the new consumer unit test satisfactorily.

In the real world you'd be foolish to change a board without doing an eicr (or at least some testing) as the customer will never agree to a load of extra work half way through a change and you'll be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Do the eicr to satisfy yourself that the change will be a smooth one but it is not required as par the course.

 

[TheCodboy]

The tattoo sounds like a great idea.

It's not required, all that is required is that you change the consumer unit in accordance with bs7671 and that any and all circuits you connect to the new consumer unit test satisfactorily.

In the real world you'd be foolish to change a board without doing an eicr (or at least some testing) as the customer will never agree to a load of extra work half way through a change and you'll be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Do the eicr to satisfy yourself that the change will be a smooth one but it is not required as par the course.

Test before hand yes, Ze,DB Zs, Circuit Zs's, IR,visual check etc, but not taking switches off and checking for marked switches etc. Obviously if anything looks dodgy it needs to be addressed, smashed sockets that sort of thing.

 

[SparkyChick]

The advice I received from my scheme (NAPIT) was "it is recommended that you carry out an EICR before a board change to ensure there are no issues that could bite you in the buttocks" (somewhat paraphrased, but you get the picture). Note, recommended, NOT required.

I asked them because I did some basic checks (IR, Zs) on the circuits including an RFC all of which were good during my quote visit, did the board change and found an RFC had an r1 of 11.8kOhms and consequently had the pleasure of figuring out where the problems were before I could finish up and issue the cert, thankfully the customer was understanding, but could have cost me.

So I would add RFC end to end continuity to the list of checks to do. It's worth the time in the long run.

 

[Midwest]

Think this is getting some what overhyped. Whilst it might be prudent to carry out some rudimentary checks before replacing a CU, you don't want to be in a position of installing a bran sparky new dual RCD or RCBO populated CU, but can't turn it on 'cos its got some neutral earth fault, but I'm not spending my free time carry out some freebie 'EICR'. If the property has faults, that's extra, as mentioned in my T&C's.

 

[SparkyChick]

In general @Midwest I agree with you and it would be very easy to go way over the top, but personally, I don't do anything too onerous (basic checks at the DB, IR of as much as I can, Zs at a selection of places, Ze and PFC if poss, RFC continuity and a quick visual of as much as I can - this list has grown over time because I've been stung by issues previously), besides while I have the power off, I'm having a chat with the customer about any issues they may have with the current installation, or anything they might like changing while the work is going on, finding out more about the installation (age, any paperwork etc.) and hopefully enjoying a cuppa if they offer one before the power goes off.

I'd much rather have a good idea upfront of what I'm getting into and I'm pretty certain it goes down much better with the customer if you can warn them there may be a problem that will cost to fix rather than being stung with that on the day of the work. It just means both parties are better prepared for the final outcome.

Anyhow, you don't need to do an EICR, it's a personal choice and this is how I choose to operate because I don't look on it as wasted time, I look on it as building a relationship with a potential client.

 

[TheCodboy]

In general @Midwest I agree with you and it would be very easy to go way over the top, but personally, I don't do anything too onerous (basic checks at the DB, IR of as much as I can, Zs at a selection of places, Ze and PFC if poss, RFC continuity and a quick visual of as much as I can - this list has grown over time because I've been stung by issues previously), besides while I have the power off, I'm having a chat with the customer about any issues they may have with the current installation, or anything they might like changing while the work is going on, finding out more about the installation (age, any paperwork etc.) and hopefully enjoying a cuppa if they offer one before the power goes off.

I'd much rather have a good idea upfront of what I'm getting into and I'm pretty certain it goes down much better with the customer if you can warn them there may be a problem that will cost to fix rather than being stung with that on the day of the work. It just means both parties are better prepared for the final outcome.

Anyhow, you don't need to do an EICR, it's a personal choice and this is how I choose to operate because I don't look on it as wasted time, I look on it as building a relationship with a potential client.

Thats another thing i need to start doing..... Getting the kettle on before i knock the power off.

 

[Midwest]

In general
I'd much rather have a good idea upfront of what I'm getting into and I'm pretty certain it goes down much better with the customer if you can warn them there may be a problem that will cost to fix rather than being stung with that on the day of the work. It just means both parties are better prepared for the final outcome.
QUOTE]

USER]

At quotation stage I wouldn't carry out any tests whatsoever. I would however inform my prospective customer, that if my quotation was agreeable, before replacing the CU, I would indeed carry some testing (akin to what you mentioned), as well as the required tests when replacing the CU. My T&C's in my quotation, state it doesn't include rectifying existing faults, and I make that fully clear. This may actually be what you are referring to.

I would deal with each prospective installation on it's own merits. I have declined a few CU changes, because the existing installation appeared it such a poor state, that some or all of it might need replacing. I don't do EICR's & I don't do occupied rewires, I'll recommend someone else.

I think the point is, for the OP, a documented certified EICR is not required before replacing a CU, but obviously an EIC would be issued, which may include results of preliminary testing.

 

[Midwest]

PS somehow messed up my reply with SparkChick's quotation. Didn't mean to underline everything I said. Its not that important

 

[TheCodboy]

With regards to Test results sheet, What about ref method? Obviously on an existing install there is no way to verify this, so do we leave it blank or go with worst case senario??

 

[Midwest]

In a domestic property, it would be in walls, covered with insulation etc?

 

[SparkyChick]

I would try and make an informed assessment. The last one I did, the only place that was insulated was the loft, the rest was floor voids and cables in the gap between blockwork and plasterboard so it was fairly straightforward to make an informed decision.

Failing that I'd go for worst case, verifying the OCPD are still fine for the de-rated current carying capacity and possibly make a note on the EIC that it's not been possible to verify installation methods so you've assumed worst case and verified the OCPD are still suitable.

 

[HandySparks]

Thats another thing i need to start doing..... Getting the kettle on before i knock the power off.

Oh yes. If I'm turning the power off for more than a few minutes, I always ask the customer if they need to boil the kettle first. It quite often prompts an enquiry as to whether I'd like a cup of tea.

 

[TheCodboy]

I would try and make an informed assessment. The last one I did, the only place that was insulated was the loft, the rest was floor voids and cables in the gap between blockwork and plasterboard so it was fairly straightforward to make an informed decision.

Failing that I'd go for worst case, verifying the OCPD are still fine for the de-rated current carying capacity and possibly make a note on the EIC that it's not been possible to verify installation methods so you've assumed worst case and verified the OCPD are still suitable.

Makes sense, assume the worst, covers your back!

 

[Dave OCD]

Oh yes. If I'm turning the power off for more than a few minutes, I always ask the customer if they need to boil the kettle first. It quite often prompts an enquiry as to whether I'd like a cup of tea.

Me too, although it occasionally doesn't work, then I'll get cheeky and say something like 'a nice cuppa would be much appreciated' .

 

[Des 56]

Me too, although it occasionally doesn't work, then I'll get cheeky and say something like 'a nice cuppa would be much appreciated' .

I said those words once where the clients gobby teen son was left to look after the house
His reply was " I got better things to do than make you Tea" or more precisely two words to that effect

 

[Dave OCD]

It must have been tempting to give the little tw@t a slap !