Contracts

[Voltimax]

Hi guys,

Question about contracts. I know we should use them, but to be honest I just use a terms and conditions. I'm now thinking though it may be a good idea, what with all the gits that don't want to pay for their extras.
I have seen many example contracts out there, but all of them state a start and finish time. Now personally I don't like that and the reason is other trades and even clients themselves. How many times have you completed a first fix and then been messed about by other trades thus putting your time frame out the window? Sometimes something may go wrong and you'll run into extra time and this will take you past your finish time and put you into breach of contract.
So my question is can you leave that section out? Will it still be legal and binding if you do?

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Could you negotiate with the builder or whoever is carrying out the other works. They usually have a start and finish date, so use the same dates as them. i am working on the theory that you cant start first fix until its built and water tight, and they cant finish the job until long after you have finished, so by using their dates, you should be OK even if the job over runs a bit.

Cheers..........Howard

 

[Voltimax]

Not just jobs with builders, any jobs where dependent on other trades, kitchen refits etc and you may not always know who the fitter will be if you're working directly for the customer.
I've been in the trade for over 20 years and I have yet to dare give an exact finish date, emergency call outs to existing customers etc. In this game there are too many variables especially when altering existing circuits where nasties may show up and throw your times out. Start dates not usually a problem.
Anyway, question is would it still be binding?

 

[accordfire]

Hi guys,

Question about contracts. I know we should use them, but to be honest I just use a terms and conditions. I'm now thinking though it may be a good idea, what with all the gits that don't want to pay for their extras.
I have seen many example contracts out there, but all of them state a start and finish time. Now personally I don't like that and the reason is other trades and even clients themselves. How many times have you completed a first fix and then been messed about by other trades thus putting your time frame out the window? Sometimes something may go wrong and you'll run into extra time and this will take you past your finish time and put you into breach of contract.
So my question is can you leave that section out? Will it still be legal and binding if you do?

Okay - a contract is essentially a set of terms and conditions specific to a given project. They're not essentially different things.

The simple way of dealing with this is to have a standard set of terms and conditions, and in your work spec include a specific set of variations to those, if required - normally what specifically you will, or will not do over and above the standard Ts and Cs.

It is essential that you make crystal clear both in your standard terms and in any specification/work description that variations to the work you are describing are at additional cost, and subject to written agreement. For example, we also state clearly that our work hours are between 08:00 and 18:00 and the work is carried out during these hours, unless specifically varied in writing, and that such work outside normal hours will be subject to additional cost. We also have a clause allowing us to charge for delays in work due to circumstances beyond our control, such as other trades not completing their work, or delays by the customer.

The other relevant point is that we also have a clause which expressly states that time is NOT OF THE ESSENCE. What this means, is that whilst we will use all reasonable effort to complete the job in a timely manner, within the request of the customer, we do not accept, unless we have agreed in writing, that the job will be finished by any stated time at all.

The only normal exception to this is site work - where the main contractor will normally require you to work to a specific schedule, in which case we make clear we will charge (and do) where other factors of that schedule prevent us completing in line with that schedule.

The thing about site work is to document every delay as it happens, and submit that to the site manager at the least with every payment application, pointing out that you are being delayed by other trades, and have enclosed your variation order for acceptance.

 

[SirKit Breaker]

Not just jobs with builders, any jobs where dependent on other trades, kitchen refits etc and you may not always know who the fitter will be if you're working directly for the customer.
I've been in the trade for over 20 years and I have yet to dare give an exact finish date, emergency call outs to existing customers etc. In this game there are too many variables especially when altering existing circuits where nasties may show up and throw your times out. Start dates not usually a problem.
Anyway, question is would it still be binding?

I see what you are getting at.

If you go over the times stated due to circumstance beyond your control then as i see it you can't be had for breach of contract. Could you word your contract along those lines taking into consideration the variables and other commitments you describe. I always point out to customers that i will be there at whatever time and day unless something un expected crops up which may delay me. and that i will always keep them informed as to when i will get there if i am to be late. Customers have to be as flexible as we do, and you probably could be had for breach of contract in certain circumstances. But any court case would be expected to see the common sense side of things, and take into account why you have gone into breach of contract. If you point out the variables etc to your customers before you start, then i can't see any major problems. Good question and food for thought all the same.

Cheers.........Howard