domestic smoke alarms

[deanmac]

hi my mate has just rang me to say he has just finished doing a eicr on a 4 bedroom multiple occupancy,he said all mains smoke alarms are out of date so he has coded them as a 2, which i think should be a 3 he also done a normal 2 bed flat this morning and the smoke and heat were out of date and were not interlinked so he has marked it down as a 2 i think at best it's a 3 your thoughts please

 

[Andy78]

Which part of BS7671 requires smoke alarms ?

 

[Dillb]

I would be asking what reg number they dont comply with? When he cant tell me as it won be covered by BS7671 then ask him why he thinks he competant to carry out a EICR when he is coding items not covered by it.

 

[deanmac]

Which part of BS7671 requires smoke alarms ?

i thought that were needed in a multiple occupancy

 

[Dillb]

i thought that were needed in a multiple occupancy

They might be, but there is no requirement for them in BS7671

 

[Andy78]

i thought that were needed in a multiple occupancy

This requirement will be covered by things like the housing act, fire regulations, and council requirements.
An EICR is carried out to assess electrical safety to BS7671. If the scope of the work has asked for fire alarm checks then there are specific forms for that sort of thing.

 

[westward10]

Your mate should not be doing EICRs he is probably a liability.

 

[telectrix]

to be fair to the guy, he is in error in coding smoke detectors, but he has observed a safety issue. what he should do is to inform the client/landlord of his concerns separately to the EICR.

 

[Octopus]

Non functioning smoke alarms can only be commented on ............. unless you count them as a "broken" accessory then it may be a C2

But then its not an immediate electrical issue.

 

[Nigel]

Note on the EICR but no code.

 

[westward10]

to be fair to the guy, he is in error in coding smoke detectors, but he has observed a safety issue. what he should do is to inform the client/landlord of his concerns separately to the EICR.

The landlord should be well aware of his, not for someone else to tell him of his responsibility for maintaining any safety systems.

 

[KEV 1 N]

Note on the EICR but no code.

Yes that’s what I’d do, and write “note” in the box where codes would go.

 

[casperLennon]

How do you become competent at eicr? Are there any courses? Or is it shadowing someone for experience

 

[ashrow]

Casper
Experience and not "stating your own opinion".
Also is a good read http://www.----------------------------/mediafile/100404922/Best-Practice-Guide-4-Issue-4.pdf

I do not do condition reporting

 

[casperLennon]

I’d like to but wouldn’t want to get it wrong

 

[Deleted member 105166]

You could suggest he checks the sanitation and glazing whilst he is about it...

 

[buzzlightyear]

may be the op mate should join the forums and ask his self .
or are you asking (for a friend).

 

[pirate]

Maybe comment on the lack of a Legionella Risk Assessment?
I always insist on doing one when I carry out the PA Testing!
Soon, I hope to introduce the PB/VOC/Asbestos in paint/Artex/wall and ceiling covering tests...
Clearly, I will need to be certified as competent in these fields, but that is not a problem because there are often University posts on here which will give me a Degree in such things for a small fee...

 

[a-z electrics]

Isn't there a "catch all" reg that manufacturers instructions must be followed.. somewhere?

 

[johnduffell]

Bette to code the state of their tea mugs and bog, give them a dangerous if they aren't sparkling!

 

[JK-Electrical]

to be fair to the guy, he is in error in coding smoke detectors, but he has observed a safety issue. what he should do is to inform the client/landlord of his concerns separately to the EICR.

In the same scenario I would just use SELECT's Observations Worthy Of Note Associated With An EICR to record the smoke alarm issue and append the form to the condition report for the property owner's attention.

 

[JK-Electrical]

The landlord should be well aware of his, not for someone else to tell him of his responsibility for maintaining any safety systems.

Up here in Scotland, the onus for electrical safety in any privately let property lies exclusively with the property owner. They are required to satisfy themselves that the person they have hired to carry-out an EICR on their behalf is competent and qualified to do so. Few ever do. Indeed, I recently lost an EICR to a plumber. I kid you not.

The system we have up here vis a vis ensuring electrical safety in private lets quite clearly isn't fit for the purpose. There are all sorts of muppets doing EICRs in the greater Glasgow area ...... usually for between £40 to £60. Nuff said.

 

[alasdairp]

Up here in Scotland, the onus for electrical safety in any privately let property lies exclusively with the property owner. They are required to satisfy themselves that the person they have hired to carry-out an EICR on their behalf is competent and qualified to do so. Few ever do. Indeed, I recently lost an EICR to a plumber. I kid you not.

The system we have up here vis a vis ensuring electrical safety in private lets quite clearly isn't fit for the purpose. There are all sorts of muppets doing EICRs in the greater Glasgow area ...... usually for between £40 to £60. Nuff said.

I am near Dumfries. I built an extension to my cottage (home) a couple of years ago and D&G Building Control said that to meet the Scottish Building Regs I had to have 6 mains/battery networked (interlinked) fire/smoke/heat sensor/alarms around the extension and original cottage. This was to meet the current Scottish Building Regs rather than anything to do with Wiring Regs. So who is meant to police the state/condition of the alarms, then?

 

[westward10]

It is your life they are protecting.

 

[Deleted member 105166]

So who is meant to police the state/condition of the alarms, then?

You are - they are protecting your family and property!
If the worst happened and you knowingly left the smokes without good backup batteries or circuit dead, you'll be the one to live with the consequences for the rest of your life. Or maybe not.

 

[alasdairp]

So they won't come under an EICR unless there is an actual wiring or required electrical test measurement error? Mine are on a separate non-RCD circuit wired using 4 core Prysmian FP200 Gold (with red outer colour).
I was really responding to the original query - should a functional failure they be reported on an EICR if the wiring is correct but a sensor has failed and the test button does not work?
My reading of the rules is that it is the home-resident's responsibility for regular functional checking but that landlords are advised to do periodic checking.

 

[Octopus]

So who is meant to police the state/condition of the alarms, then?

Good question !

 

[JK-Electrical]

So they won't come under an EICR unless there is an actual wiring or required electrical test measurement error? Mine are on a separate non-RCD circuit wired using 4 core Prysmian FP200 Gold (with red outer colour).
I was really responding to the original query - should a functional failure they be reported on an EICR if the wiring is correct but a sensor has failed and the test button does not work?
My reading of the rules is that it is the home-resident's responsibility for regular functional checking but that landlords are advised to do periodic checking.

There is nothing on the EICR tick-sheet that I can see concerning the inspection and testing of smoke/heat alarms. But in my opinion, there should be. They form part of the installation and should therefore be inspected and tested during an EICR. For all the time it takes, I will inspect and test alarms during an EICR and notify the homeowner of any defects found via SELECT's Observations Worthy Of Note Associated With An EICR form.

I recently came across alarms that were seven years beyond their expiry date that would have otherwise remained unnoticed had I not checked.