EICR Certs - NICEIC registration

[pc1966]

my personal opinion is lighting without rcd protection should be C2, but under current guidance and regs it is C3.

I would say the BPG#4 guidance seems quite good. but it always comes down to a judgment call on the risks involved.

So I would say C3 for no RCD on indoor lights generally (assuming sound CPC, etc) as you rarely handle the related equipment (less so today with LED lamps lasting an order of magnitude longer than filament lamps). Even metal switch plates, the obvious case, are not something you can grasp under shock conditions and it still needs a double fault to present such a risk (CPC open then fault to metalwork).

But you can easily find examples such as outdoor lights and light switches where the presence of water increases the risk of shock, or low height 'artistic' lighting metalwork that is easily grasped close to other conductive objects, etc, that change the risk greatly and then C2 is reasonable.

 

[brianmoooore]

Bear in mind that registration with a scheme, such as NAPIT or NICEIC is absolutely no guarantee of competency.

 

[Markyd]

Bear in mind that registration with a scheme, such as NAPIT or NICEIC is absolutely no guarantee of competency.

These according to the NICEIC registered sparky who done the Eicr are 60898 type B MCB's And the RCD is 30ma and has a trip time of 28ms x1 and 19ms x5

 

[Markyd]

These according to the NICEIC registered sparky who done the Eicr are 60898 type B MCB's And the RCD is 30ma and has a trip time of 28ms x1 and 19ms x5View attachment 90336

And yes i have tried to report him but do you think the NICEIC are at all bothered...not a bit

 

[baldelectrician]

Hi,
Private landlord here.
Like seemingly a lot of people. I thought electricians had to be registered with NICEIC or NAPIT in order to carry out an EICR test on a property. Except actually I've just learned they dont actually have to be. (thats correct right?).

However, if they then say the property is not up to standard and needs some bits of work doing on the electrics in order to get the cert, do they then have to be registered with one of the bodies in order to carry out the work?

If they don't have to be registered with any of these bodies, I have read something about being a "competent person". What does this mean, and is there any way I can check their status / check they have passed whatever qualifications they need to have done?
Thank

I would suggest a registered electrical contractor.

If your agent are not using a company from the competent person scheme you have almost no come back (not that you have tons on an EICR)

This sounds like the standard agent- calls up 10 sparks and asks how much, does not care about how good or safe.

Remember the agent are meant to be acting in your interest.

Ask them how they have checked the qualifications, insurance etc of the contractor they use?

To pin it down- I would suggest a NICIEC / ECA full scope electrical contractor who is time served (and not just short course trained), preferably a small / family firm who has apprentices (the contractors with apprentices are showing commitment to future training)

 

[Markyd]

I would suggest a registered electrical contractor.

If your agent are not using a company from the competent person scheme you have almost no come back (not that you have tons on an EICR)

This sounds like the standard agent- calls up 10 sparks and asks how much, does not care about how good or safe.

Remember the agent are meant to be acting in your interest.

Ask them how they have checked the qualifications, insurance etc of the contractor they use?

To pin it down- I would suggest a NICIEC / ECA full scope electrical contractor who is time served (and not just short course trained), preferably a small / family firm who has apprentices (the contractors with apprentices are showing commitment to future training)

And i wouldnt recommend a NICEIC registered electrician after what i saw and the fact they are not interested in following it up

 

[brianmoooore]

And i wouldnt recommend a NICEIC registered electrician after what i saw and the fact they are not interested in following it up

And if you go for a NAPIT one, you'll be up against their Codebreakers book and its deviations from BPG4.

 

[Grant1987]

And if you go for a NAPIT one, you'll be up against their Codebreakers book and its deviations from BPG4.

It seems to me that the landlord is looking to go against the electrician who has recommended the upgrades on his property and come on here to give himself some clout based on our replies. It’s a fine line and I’ll always back my fellow sparks unless the work is non compliant to our blue bible. I don’t like homeowners seeking to use our info to go against a fellow spark and only giving half the story so my advice is to be aware of the person asking the questions

 

[pc1966]

It seems to me that the landlord is looking to go against the electrician who has recommended the upgrades on his property and come on here to give himself some clout based on our replies. It’s a fine line and I’ll always back my fellow sparks unless the work is non compliant to our blue bible. I don’t like homeowners seeking to use our info to go against a fellow spark and only giving half the story so my advice is to be aware of the person asking the questions

That is not how I read it.

Yes, he has been told that work needs done, but the first question from the OP was really about membership of a competent persons scheme being a requirement, as the contractor used by their agent did not seem to be registered. To me that is simple and perfectly valid point to ask, though the answer is complicated and the thread drifted off in to the likes of NAPIT versus BPG#4 guidance, etc.

Also another aspect of this is the OP apparently has not been given the EICR report, but simply told the work is needed. To me that is unacceptable (as well as raising a bit of suspicion when coupled with the apparently non-registered contractor). If your agent has commissioned an EICR you should get the full report as well as any recommendation/costings for corrective work.

Unless we see this EICR we have no idea. As I have mentioned in previous posts it could well be that the EICR is reasonable and all of the work proposed is required, but without seeing the report and maybe some photos of the points raised nobody can say one way or another.

 

[UNG]

And yes i have tried to report him but do you think the NICEIC are at all bothered...not a bit

Well if the NICEIC are not interested elevate it to UKAS and their complaints procedure Complaints, Feedback and Appeals - UKAS - https://www.ukas.com/customer-area/complaints-feedback-and-appeals/

It seems to me that the landlord is looking to go against the electrician who has recommended the upgrades on his property and come on here to give himself some clout based on our replies. It’s a fine line and I’ll always back my fellow sparks unless the work is non compliant to our blue bible. I don’t like homeowners seeking to use our info to go against a fellow spark and only giving half the story so my advice is to be aware of the person asking the questio

The OP only appeared to be questioning the registration status of an electrician to be able carry out EICR's / remedial works

 

[Grant1987]

That is not how I read it.

Yes, he has been told that work needs done, but the first question from the OP was really about membership of a competent persons scheme being a requirement, as the contractor used by their agent did not seem to be registered. To me that is simple and perfectly valid point to ask, though the answer is complicated and the thread drifted off in to the likes of NAPIT versus BPG#4 guidance, etc.

Also another aspect of this is the OP apparently has not been given the EICR report, but simply told the work is needed. To me that is unacceptable (as well as raising a bit of suspicion when coupled with the apparently non-registered contractor). If your agent has commissioned an EICR you should get the full report as well as any recommendation/costings for corrective work.

Unless we see this EICR we have no idea. As I have mentioned in previous posts it could well be that the EICR is reasonable and all of the work proposed is required, but without seeing the report and maybe some photos of the points raised nobody can say one way or another.

Then why was the electrical contractor asked to carry out the report in the first place, the agent as the landlord has put it should know better and can’t now complain because remedial work has been advised surely the agent has a good understanding of how the system works my hunch is a landlord looking for a way out and hoping to get the property satisfactory without paying out £££

 

[timhoward]

And if you go for a NAPIT one, you'll be up against their Codebreakers book and its deviations from BPG4.

I hear you, but some of us think for ourselves! IMHO Code breakers was mainly about Napit trying to make money, not Napit trying to help their members.
Their own training team issues BPG4 to students and advises against reading CB!

 

[UNG]

I hear you, but some of us think for ourselves! IMHO Code breakers was mainly about Napit trying to make money, not Napit trying to help their members.
Their own training team issues BPG4 to students and advises against reading CB!

I was told by one of the NAPIT guys at Elex Coventry that codebreakers was published so that the coding of issues would be consistant across the industry, he didn't appreciate me laughing