Heating switching on regardless

[EddieB]

I have a Fully pumped S plan with two zone valves HW & CH, when the programmer is off, the room stat is turned down as far as it will go the heating still comes on, I'm assuming the CH 2 port valve is faulty and must be letting voltage through to the pump/ boiler. I have two valves a drayton ZA5 and an unidentifiable Range, if it is a faulty valve can I just remove the body and leave the base in place, has anybody else experienced this issue before and confirm my thought regarding the faulty valve? Cheers

 

[telectrix]

get your meter out first and see where the trigger voltage is coming from.

 

[Wilko]

Maybe orange lead from CH valve is now permanently live. But don't buy anything till it's proven what's wrong as Tel has said.

 

[buzzlightyear]

[/ATTACH] there you go, follow the wiring diagram.it could be the controller needs changing. Are you falimarised with heating systems.

 

[sean_ork]

Dead test the valves microswitch first

 

[Leesparkykent]

put programner and thermostat in the off positions for both heating and hot water, separate the oranges of both valves, test which orange has voltage, once you've confirmed which one has voltage check if there is voltage on the brown of the same valve. If there is no voltage on the brown but voltage on the orange then the micro switch is stuck closed between grey and orange.

I doubt it's the programmer as the thermostat would have to also be faulty as they are in series.

Double check the CH valve isn't manually open as some valves have this facility. If the valve isn't seized open then you could get a replacement head as the micro switch is stuck. If the valve is seized then you will need a plumber to replace it.

 

[Devonchris]

Also check you haven't got a frost stat somewhere that's turned up higher than normal or faulty.

 

[EddieB]

Guys
All sorted it turns out the micro switch on the Heating Valve was sticking ( Grey & Orange) I operated the valve a couple of times and hey Presto it now works.
Thank you to all of you who responded .

 

[EddieB]

get your meter out first and see where the trigger voltage is coming from.

Ah the trusty meter all now sorted thank you

 

[EddieB]

put programner and thermostat in the off positions for both heating and hot water, separate the oranges of both valves, test which orange has voltage, once you've confirmed which one has voltage check if there is voltage on the brown of the same valve. If there is no voltage on the brown but voltage on the orange then the micro switch is stuck closed between grey and orange.

I doubt it's the programmer as the thermostat would have to also be faulty as they are in series.

Double check the CH valve isn't manually open as some valves have this facility. If the valve isn't seized open then you could get a replacement head as the micro switch is stuck. If the valve is seized then you will need a plumber to replace it.

All sorted, thank you for your response

 

[EddieB]

Maybe orange lead from CH valve is now permanently live. But don't buy anything till it's proven what's wrong as Tel has said.

So it proved, thanks for the response

 

[Devonchris]

Good well done. Thanks for the update.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Just warn the customer they maybe looking at a replacement soon as no doubt it will stick again in the near future.

 

[buzzlightyear]

if faulty is easy to replace, has long you have shut of valves near it .but I if I was you
I would get a plumber in having to drain down and put in central heating additive
like fornix inhibitor .if you replace it you will be back within the 12months.

 

[Wilko]

I had one similar this morning - this time CH wouldn't turn on. The wiring centre was a copy of @Leesparkykent avatar ...

 

[buzzlightyear]

that's what I call spaghetti junction cabling .

 

[Ian1981]

I had one similar this morning - this time CH wouldn't turn on. The wiring centre was a copy of @Leesparkykent avatar ...

View attachment 38223

Wow are those un-insulated links for real?

 

[telectrix]

just love those bare links at the top. waiting to give the unwary a bite.

 

[Wilko]

Wow are those un-insulated links for real?

Yep.
Owner swears it was done by a proper Spark and wouldn't blame Mr Plumber (I admit that I did try to get him over that line). Even more badness - the single retaining screw for the wiring centre cover was missing - so half asleep first thing I opened the cupboard, bumped the box and the cover fell off, revealing all its naked glory. . They've got brooms and stuff in there and it's just luck no-ones been hurt. It also has a 3kW immersion running on 1mm flex from a 13A fcu. It was on when I got there (don't ask me why... ) and the cable and fcu were toasty. Freed up the CH valve, took fuse from immersion, secured the wiring centre top and beat a hasty retreat for today. I'll go back later in the week and make it presentable.

 

[buzzlightyear]

post a pic when done.

 

[Wilko]

post a pic when done.

I'm sure I can improve it, but this mob are a tough audience

 

[buzzlightyear]

go on give it a go it want harm any body .

 

[buzzlightyear]

wilko. whats with the earth tails and brown & blue tails in block connecter 14.

 

[Wilko]

Oh dear, looks like a bang in the making doesn't it? The blue is an unsleeved switched live, but WTF is that g/y ... now I'm worried

 

[Ian1981]

I'm probably being optimistic but perhaps they are spare cores that have been earthed?
As all cables entering the heating jb are flexes.
To be honest I can't make out were any of the earths terminate to.

 

[buzzlightyear]

if I was you wilko I would take wiring diagram if possible.

 

[Wilko]

Agree, I will do !
It may be a trick of the pic, but thank you @buzzlightyear for pointing it out
I haven't changed anything in the wiring centre, just used the trusty 2 pole voltage detector on the terminals. So whatever it is, it's been that way for some time. I've arranged to go back tomorrow morning so next pic might be sooner than I thought.

 

[SparkyChick]

I'm sure I can improve it, but this mob are a tough audience

You've got cable clamps, so you'll be fine

 

[Wilko]

Went back this morning and it turns out the br, bl and g/y in connector 14 that @buzzlightyear spotted was close to a bang. The g/y was an unsecured cpc that was floating about in that connector . Top left pic shows it where I've just pulled it down away from them. Got rid of those bare links and then noticed many of the flex cables were damaged by cuts. So I went through and fixed them. Replaced the somewhat golden brown pvc flex 1mm that'd been cooked by the 3kW immersion (now high temp 2.5mm flex) and ditched the fcu for a 20A flex outlet and DP sw with some 2.5mm t&e replacing even more 1mm flex . I'm not happy with the neatness of the wiring centre, but it is safer and easier to see where the cables come from.

 

[buzzlightyear]

good job wilko .you will have to wait now for what the mob says!

 

[SparkyChick]

Nice job

What amazes me is just how bad some of these wiring centres can be, and I'm pretty sure I've not seen the worst. If only the people doing them in the first place realised it would be much easier if they made a nice neat job of it to begin with.

Nice crispy cable too... doesn't it crunch when you try and bend it?

 

[Leesparkykent]

Nice job

What amazes me is just how bad some of these wiring centres can be, and I'm pretty sure I've not seen the worst. If only the people doing them in the first place realised it would be much easier if they made a nice neat job of it to begin with.

Nice crispy cable too... doesn't it crunch when you try and bend it?

That's because most are plumbers attempts.

 

[SparkyChick]

That's because most are plumbers attempts.

I realise that From my limited experience a bad wiring centre usually ties up with a nest of copper pipe that looks a little like your avatar

 

[Leesparkykent]

I realise that From my limited experience a bad wiring centre usually ties up with a nest of copper pipe that looks a little like your avatar

I come across a cylinder stat wired in telephone cable before

 

[SparkyChick]

I come across a cylinder stat wired in telephone cable before

I should really be shocked and horrified by that statement, but for some reason it's like water off a ducks back these days, it just doesn't surprise me in the slightest

 

[Wilko]

Nice crispy cable too... doesn't it crunch when you try and bend it?

The boiler an immersion were running off fcu with 13A fuse using that flex. The flex was stiff and starting to tan, but it hadn't gone crunchy yet. I reckon it was only a matter of time once they turned on the immersion, closed the cupboard and forgot all about it. The new 2.5 will take that all day long if they do it again

 

[EddieB]

I'm not sure if I'm seeing correctly, but in that initial picture of the junction box there seems to be an earth wire connected with the blue and brown, I also have to assume that the blue should also be sleeved.

 

[Wilko]

I'm not sure if I'm seeing correctly, but in that initial picture of the junction box there seems to be an earth wire connected with the blue and brown, I also have to assume that the blue should also be sleeved.

Probably
Check out post 23 and 29