Hot tub supply

[Paul K]

Hi everyone,

I have a redundant 40amp fuse on its own breaker which was originally for a shower. It’s capped off in the loft, can I use this supply to power a hot tub?

Cheers in advance.

 

[DefyG]

Theoretically - Yes, but it may need de-rating if the hot tub doesn't require such a large supply.
Presumably as previously for a shower it is a RCBO or otherwise RCD protected supply?

 

[Jock from the north]

Hi everyone,

I have a redundant 40amp fuse on its own breaker which was originally for a shower. It’s capped off in the loft, can I use this supply to power a hot tub?

Cheers in advance.

I would refer to the hot tub manufacturers electrical requirments

 

[Paul K]

Theoretically - Yes, but it may need de-rating if the hot tub doesn't require such a large supply.
Presumably as previously for a shower it is a RCBO or otherwise RCD protected supply?

I’m a rank amateur when it comes to electrics, so d be getting a spark in to do the work. It would just be a lot easier and cheaper running it through the loft and down the side of the house than having it all redone.

Can the fuse be changed to a lower amp?

 

[littlespark]

It can be reduced in size, but it would have to be rcd protected

 

[westward10]

That consumer unit looks like it has been adapted that mcb should not be located there and that Main Switch (RCD) is not an RCD.

 

[Jock from the north]

I’m a rank amateur when it comes to electrics, so d be getting a spark in to do the work. It would just be a lot easier and cheaper running it through the loft and down the side of the house than having it all redone.

Can the fuse be changed to a lower amp?

Yes but would have to be an rcbo unless you are using armored cable ,but then it would need an rcd at hot tub end .much easier changing that to an rcbo but unsure if you would get a brand new rcbo in that range ,maybe someone else will know.im sure I'll be corrected im not that familiar or can't remember the layout of that type of boards but the mcb seems to be in the wrong side of mainswitch but maybe there's a manufactured piece of busbar feeding mcb .the live I believe would enter on the right hand side of mainswitch .its also only rated at 63 amps which seems odd if its your main board for house .it looks like it's been altered at some point .it also says rcd on it which it isn't. But your sparky will keep you right .do you no your earthing system type .does it say Pme on main cut out fuse

 

[Jock from the north]

That consumer unit looks like it has been adapted that mcb should not be located there and that Main Switch (RCD) is not an RCD.

You beat me to it lol

 

[PS Electrics]

That consumer unit looks like it has been adapted that mcb should not be located there and that Main Switch (RCD) is not an RCD.

I thought that but I think it is OK there is space to the left of that MCB for a 2nd MCB. It is a 2 Module CU.

The case must be able to be cut to suit the modules I am presuming. Got that from looking at an example online.

Of course the Main switch is labeled RCD which is not correct and is misleading.

This is most likely a Sub Board and if that is the case is the supply to this RCD protected perhaps?

 

[Jock from the north]

I thought that but I think it is OK there is space to the left of that MCB for a 2nd MCB. It is a 2 Module CU.

The case must be able to be cut to suit the modules I am presuming. Got that from looking at an example online.

View attachment 119849

Of course the Main switch is labeled RCD which is not correct and is misleading.

This is most likely a Sub Board and if that is the case is the supply to this RCD protected perhaps?

Yes I think your right it was hard to tell from original picture I thought it was the main consumer unit .it would make sense with the 63 amp main switch

 

[westward10]

I thought that but I think it is OK there is space to the left of that MCB for a 2nd MCB. It is a 2 Module CU.

The case must be able to be cut to suit the modules I am presuming. Got that from looking at an example online.

View attachment 119849

Of course the Main switch is labeled RCD which is not correct and is misleading.

This is most likely a Sub Board and if that is the case is the supply to this RCD protected perhaps?

You are correct I quickly thought the mcbs were to the right and one had been put to the left.

 

[Jock from the north]

You are correct I quickly thought the mcbs were to the right and one had been put to the left.

Me to

 

[Paul K]

Thanks for all the helpful advice, I’m going to get a new consumer unit installed for some old fuses anyway so I’ll just change integrate that one into the new board. What I wanted to do was avoid having a new cable run from the front of the house to the back. Hopefully I can make use of the shower cabling to solve that problem.

That RCD switch controls nothing at the minute, when I first moved into the house here was no gas so that RCD was for the storage heaters which has a separate consumer unit to the right. I capped them all off when I removed them as soon as I had my gas piped in.

Really appreciate everyone’s input.

 

[brianmoooore]

The label on your CU is incorrect. It's just a main switch on the right. There is no RCD.

 

[DefyG]

which has a separate consumer unit to the right.

Not sure we are getting the full picture here!

The photo of the 2way consumer unit is NOT an RCD but you mention one to the right of it?
I also suspect another CU as a 2way (6 & 16A mcb's) doesn't seem sufficient for storage heaters! or whole house, (ie where are your cooker, ring finals and lighting connected?)
Do NOT get confused with the incorrectly labelled Main Switch as others have said it is NOT an RCD and by look of it the shower install was non-compliant as it wasn't RCD protected!

Can you step back a bit and take a photo of the whole consumer unit(s) set up, including meter if indoors.

 

[littlespark]

Depending on the requirements of the actual hot tub, the cable size should be adaquate, but it is likely sitting in the attic as a flat grey twin and earth cable.
If you were to extend this to outside, you would need to use something appropriate for outside, as twin and earth can not be used externally.

We still need the electrical requirements of the hot tub to advise fully.

 

[PS Electrics]

Not sure we are getting the full picture here!

The photo of the 2way consumer unit is NOT an RCD but you mention one to the right of it?
I also suspect another CU as a 2way (6 & 16A mcb's) doesn't seem sufficient for storage heaters! or whole house, (ie where are your cooker, ring finals and lighting connected?)

From what the OP said, my understanding is there is a Consumer Unit with fuses that supplies this board so this is where all the house circuits will be. The concern seems to be about not running a new cable front to back of house. If the cable is of the correct size and tests out ok then that should not be a problem. The OP will need a new House Consumer Unit but seems to be aware of that.

Do NOT get confused with the incorrectly labelled Main Switch as others have said it is NOT an RCD and by look of it the shower install was non-compliant as it wasn't RCD protected!

Most likely the shower was a 16th Edition install, if it was it would have been compliant at the time. Probably going to need a new sub board though as Newlec is Newy & Eyre which badged manufacturers products. This being an Electrium (Wylex) MCB which now look obsolete unless you source the secondhand market. This is on the assumption a smaller size MCB will be required.

Can you step back a bit and take a photo of the whole consumer unit(s) set up, including meter if indoors.

This would be helpful just to be 100% on what is actually there.

 

[Paul K]

Not sure we are getting the full picture here!

The photo of the 2way consumer unit is NOT an RCD but you mention one to the right of it?
I also suspect another CU as a 2way (6 & 16A mcb's) doesn't seem sufficient for storage heaters! or whole house, (ie where are your cooker, ring finals and lighting connected?)
Do NOT get confused with the incorrectly labelled Main Switch as others have said it is NOT an RCD and by look of it the shower install was non-compliant as it wasn't RCD protected!

Can you step back a bit and take a photo of the whole consumer unit(s) set up, including meter if indoors.

Th box on the right supply’s everything. The box in the middle used to power the storage heaters which have been removed. The box on the left is the old shower mains.

A new consumer unit is being installed the middle box is going. The black box is obviously being upgraded. The cabling for the shower is the easiest way to get power to the back of the house and the hot tub.

 

[Paul K]

From what the OP said, my understanding is there is a Consumer Unit with fuses that supplies this board so this is where all the house circuits will be. The concern seems to be about not running a new cable front to back of house. If the cable is of the correct size and tests out ok then that should not be a problem. The OP will need a new House Consumer Unit but seems to be aware of that.


Most likely the shower was a 16th Edition install, if it was it would have been compliant at the time. Probably going to need a new sub board though as Newlec is Newy & Eyre which badged manufacturers products. This being an Electrium (Wylex) MCB which now look obsolete unless you source the secondhand market. This is on the assumption a smaller size MCB will be required.



This would be helpful just to be 100% on what is actually there.

Have a look at my reply to

From what the OP said, my understanding is there is a Consumer Unit with fuses that supplies this board so this is where all the house circuits will be. The concern seems to be about not running a new cable front to back of house. If the cable is of the correct size and tests out ok then that should not be a problem. The OP will need a new House Consumer Unit but seems to be aware of that.


Most likely the shower was a 16th Edition install, if it was it would have been compliant at the time. Probably going to need a new sub board though as Newlec is Newy & Eyre which badged manufacturers products. This being an Electrium (Wylex) MCB which now look obsolete unless you source the secondhand market. This is on the assumption a smaller size MCB will be required.



This would be helpful just to be 100% on what is actually there.

have a look at my reply to defyG.

 

[brianmoooore]

That's an old wood frame Wylex, I think. Can't be many of those still in service - I haven't seen one for years.
I think the one thing we can say for sure on this thread is that the fusegear needs upgrading as a matter of urgency.

 

[Paul K]

That's an old wood frame Wylex, I think. Can't be many of those still in service - I haven't seen one for years.
I think the one thing we can say for sure on this thread is that the fusegear needs upgrading as a matter of urgency.

It’s being done soon, proper mess isn’t it.

 

[brianmoooore]

Here am I, commenting on ancient wooden Wylex boxes, when I've actually fitted loads of them. Not the brown wooden ones though, only the white.

 

[Paul K]

Depending on the requirements of the actual hot tub, the cable size should be adaquate, but it is likely sitting in the attic as a flat grey twin and earth cable.
If you were to extend this to outside, you would need to use something appropriate for outside, as twin and earth can not be used externally.

We still need the electrical requirements of the hot tub to advise fully.

Can Twin and earth be used outside if it’s in conduit?

 

[brianmoooore]

It's exposure to UV light from the sun that's the problem, so putting it in conduit solves that problem, BUT, if the conduit is exposed to the sun, it will raise the temperature of the cable inside, and reduce its current carrying capacity. This might require an increase in cable size.
Not been mentioned yet, but what are the earthing arrangements of the property?

 

[Paul K]

It's exposure to UV light from the sun that's the problem, so putting it in conduit solves that problem, BUT, if the conduit is exposed to the sun, it will raise the temperature of the cable inside, and reduce its current carrying capacity. This might require an increase in cable size.
Not been mentioned yet, but what are the earthing arrangements of the property?

I don’t have a clue, I just posted a picture of the whole board if that shows anything?

 

[PS Electrics]

It's exposure to UV light from the sun that's the problem, so putting it in conduit solves that problem, BUT, if the conduit is exposed to the sun, it will raise the temperature of the cable inside, and reduce its current carrying capacity. This might require an increase in cable size.
Not been mentioned yet, but what are the earthing arrangements of the property?

Looks TNC-S from the picture. Also supply is looped?

OP Any reason for the CT Clamp on the tails? Is it because it is a looped supply?

If you are thinking of adding anything later you might want to look into getting un looped whilst you are doing this work.

You have a 60A supply so you will probably be ok if the hot tub definitely isn't an addition to the shower (with what loads are showing in the picture). Otherwise you may need an upgrade and to do that most certainly you will need unlooping.

The CT clamp makes me think there is some sort of throttling going on but then again it doesn't look like you have much connected? 4 circuits and the Shower? Storage Heaters are out but even if they were in you would discount them for Maximum Demand as they would be on over night.

The rating of your proposed hot tub will have a bearing on all the above.

 

[Paul K]

Looks TNC-S from the picture. Also supply is looped?

OP Any reason for the CT Clamp on the tails? Is it because it is a looped supply?

If you are thinking of adding anything later you might want to look into getting un looped whilst you are doing this work.

You have a 60A supply so you will probably be ok if the hot tub definitely isn't an addition to the shower (with what loads are showing in the picture). Otherwise you may need an upgrade and to do that most certainly you will need unlooping.

The CT clamp makes me think there is some sort of throttling going on but then again it doesn't look like you have much connected? 4 circuits and the Shower? Storage Heaters are out but even if they were in you would discount them for Maximum Demand as they would be on over night.

The rating of your proposed hot tub will have a bearing on all the above.

Hi, yes it’s looped and that’s being sorted as we speak. (As in national grid are aware of it and have said they’re unlooping it) I’m having an EV charger installed so that’s the reasoning behind that.

Well originally it was 8 with the storage heaters.

That clamp attached to some old British Gas ariel not sure what it’s for.

As for the hot tub supply, that’ll just be the hot tub and not shower as the shower now runs directly from the boiler.

 

[Jock from the north]

Thanks for all the helpful advice, I’m going to get a new consumer unit installed for some old fuses anyway so I’ll just change integrate that one into the new board. What I wanted to do was avoid having a new cable run from the front of the house to the back. Hopefully I can make use of the shower cabling to solve that problem.

That RCD switch controls nothing at the minute, when I first moved into the house here was no gas so that RCD was for the storage heaters which has a separate consumer unit to the right. I capped them all off when I removed them as soon as I had my gas piped in.

Really appreciate everyone’s input.

If your getting a new consumer unit pay a little extra and get one with rcbos it will cost a little more but we'll worth the inconvenience if you ever have a faulty appliance or indeed a fault with an existing circuits.if you go for a split board your on a hiding to nothing .1 fault and you lose half your lights and sockets .I wish new build
companies would stop installing them.Your sparky will keep you right with type of surge protection.

 

[Jock from the north]

Looks TNC-S from the picture. Also supply is looped?

OP Any reason for the CT Clamp on the tails? Is it because it is a looped supply?

If you are thinking of adding anything later you might want to look into getting un looped whilst you are doing this work.

You have a 60A supply so you will probably be ok if the hot tub definitely isn't an addition to the shower (with what loads are showing in the picture). Otherwise you may need an upgrade and to do that most certainly you will need unlooping.

The CT clamp makes me think there is some sort of throttling going on but then again it doesn't look like you have much connected? 4 circuits and the Shower? Storage Heaters are out but even if they were in you would discount them for Maximum Demand as they would be on over night.

The rating of your proposed hot tub will have a bearing on all the above.

I to have a looped supply because they were to lazy to dig an extra track in 1981.i get paid 11 pound or so a year and it was back dated 16 years .was through a company who sent a letter out the blue and they took commission to .wish I never replied to them cos dno will prob say 'well you signed something saying it was OK so we are not removing it" it's a total mess as well they way its run in ,big loops and kinks ,through creep holes un cleated.if a rat chewed it and it burnt down my house or I accidentally damaged it ,who takes responsibility?

 

[mainline]

Hi everyone,

I have a redundant 40amp fuse on its own breaker which was originally for a shower. It’s capped off in the loft, can I use this supply to power a hot tub?

Cheers in advance.

Where is the hot tub going to be located ?
Does the manufacture say anything with regard to earthing.

 

[Jock from the north]

Looks TNC-S from the picture. Also supply is looped?

OP Any reason for the CT Clamp on the tails? Is it because it is a looped supply?

If you are thinking of adding anything later you might want to look into getting un looped whilst you are doing this work.

You have a 60A supply so you will probably be ok if the hot tub definitely isn't an addition to the shower (with what loads are showing in the picture). Otherwise you may need an upgrade and to do that most certainly you will need unlooping.

The CT clamp makes me think there is some sort of throttling going on but then again it doesn't look like you have much connected? 4 circuits and the Shower? Storage Heaters are out but even if they were in you would discount them for Maximum Demand as they would be on over night.

The rating of your proposed hot tub will have a bearing on all the above.

Where is the hot tub going to be located ?
Does the manufacture say anything with regard to earthing.

I know some insist on tt others just make a statement on instruction manual all works to be carried out in accordance with the latest bs7671 wiring regs etc.

 

[Paul K]

Where is the hot tub going to be located ?
Does the manufacture say anything with regard to earthing.

It’s going on my patio at the back of the house, I’m in the process of having the garage shortened to come into line with the back of the house. The car doesn’t fit in it so it’s just storage really. I haven’t got the hot tub yet, we’re looking at some the weekend.

 

[mainline]

I know some insist on tt others just make a statement on instruction manual all works to be carried out in accordance with the latest bs7671 wiring regs etc.

The stipulation by some manufacturers in having to have a TT supply can make it very difficult to comply.
Where there is metal work connected to the pme in proximity, for instance.

 

[Jock from the north]

The stipulation by some manufacturers in having to have a TT supply can make it very difficult to comply.
Where there is metal work connected to the pme in proximity, for instance.

I agree.plus if the tub is close to proximity of house driving down a rod could lead to problems to say the least

 

[littlespark]

Ask the question again AFTER you’ve decided on which hot tub you are buying.

Some come with a 13A plug… a lot don’t.


If you are getting an electrician in to do the work, they may insist on running a new cable right back to board anyway.
One less joint is one less point of failure….