Kitchen Electrics and the law

[i=p/u]

youve done something wrong cause you seem scared.... did you move sockets?????

 

[oldtimer]

OK I have a stab here first of all you need to go back to the "electrician" who was working in another part of the house and then did his Kwik Fit Fitter bit ie sucking air through his teeth trying to spook his customer into getting more work you also need to request from the customer any documentation
pertaining to his complaint from any third party ie the spark who kicked this all off you should also advise the customer that as far as you are concerned
you will be looking for costs. as for 3 sockets being fed from a 6mm cooker circuit this holds no water and the only thing wrong here would be is if the circuit protection is still 30 amps instead of 16 or 20 amps and you were not to know this. One thing though can you confirm that the cooker circuit was supplying 3 twin sockets only and not 3 twin sockets and the cooker and even if it was the customer will have to provide details of who and when this work was done ie a sparky guy from the pub or he did it or a local sparkie company in other words it is not for you to prove you are right it is the customer who needs to prove you were wrong.
I think this guy is a chancer because if it was a car and your job was to put new trim on it then common law says your resposabilty is only for the trim not the dodgy braking system someone else fitted 5 years previously

 

[jo4nny8]

youve done something wrong cause you seem scared.... did you move sockets?????

No not at all

im worried because a customer is taking me to court and you read in the papers all the time about companies getting shafted. what with all the cowboy builder stuff on the telly it automatically makes people think they have a case.

This particular is trying it on and the 'independant' assement she got of the works we carried out are so stupid its unreal, like for example we didnt seal down the inside of cabinets where the base of the cabinet meets the side panels, we didnt fill in the holes in the cabinets inside where the shelf pegs go and we fitted everything second hand. Its a complete joke but it still is worrying the fact that she could go into court, start crying and the judge will fall for it

 

[telectrix]

if you can prove the customer is lying on even 1 small point, then you should win hands down

 

[robsparky1975]

Sounds to me like the customer is pulling a fast one,if your not a qualified electrician then how could you possiibly know,surely a court will see the sense in this,if its in black & white on your quote fit kitchen(not alter sockets,or plumbing or gas pipes)then thats all you have done no more no less,the electrics are his problem.

 

[MFHEng]

He is quoting BS7671:2008 as says we should have rectified the electrics to this standard!

Is there anywhere i can get proof that its only installations performed after july 2008 that have to be compliant?

1. When you say he is quoting BS7671 , what regulation/regulations is he quoting ?
2. When you say you have plugged "everything in", is this a euphamism for wiring the cooker in to an outlet plate or is it connected by a BS1363 plug

 

[saveloy]

Apart from the electrical side, have you been offered an opportunity to rectify the other "defects"? And also were you paid in full for the job on completion?

 

[rodney12]

I'd be interested to know what works the spark was doing on the installation

 

[simpson93]

apart from all the sueing and claiming and what not why dont you call up the customer arrange to meet up show him what he sighned and explain that it isnt your fault.(advise him to come on here and ask for advice)

 

[Paul.M]

Here is a few useful definitions taken from the wiring regs (17th ed).

Appliance, An item of current using equipment. (note not hard wired).

Circuit, An assembly of electrical equipment supplied from the same origin. (hard wired installation that you have not changed or altered).

Cold tail, The interface between the fixed installation and a heating unit. (i think it can be used in your case. The cable coming from the cooker to the cooker connector is not classed as part of the fixed installation).

Connector, The part of a cable coupler or of an appliance coupler which........ to be attached to the end of the flexible cable remote from the supply. (the cooker connector that is part if the circuit but you have not altered the circuit by connecting the cooker).

Design current, The magnitude of the current to be carried by the circuit in normal service. (eg you didn't overload the circuit be putting in a higher rated cooker).

Fault, A circuit condition in which current flows through an abnormal or unintended path. (you have not created a fault)

Testing, Implementation if measures to assess an electrical "installation" (you have not installed any circuits, you have just plugged in 2 appliances and connected a cooker).

Instructed person, A person adequately advised or supervised "by skilled persons" to enable him/her to avoid dangers which electricity may create. (you are not a skilled person with the respects of electricity and its not your responsibility).


If I read your posts correctly you have not done anything wrong. A little bit more info on the cooker would be nice, what was the current rating of the old and new cooker? What is the complaint word for word made against you?

Think I speak for most of us on here when I say that we will help you as much as possible to get this CHANCER off your back and so you can continue trading. Good luck and keep us informed.

 

[jo4nny8]

The cooker that we took out was gas and the new one we put in was gas. so too for the hob. The ignitors were plugged in to a socket next to it in a corner base unit and we did the same. The plugs were already attached on all appliances if i remember rightly.

I cant really go into detail for exactly what is being claimed becuase we dont know ourselves. The court paperwork is filled out with her ranting and raving that we damaged her kitchen and supplied everything 2nd hand but she hasnt actually given a proper and true account of what she is claiming for she just wants a refund???

Im only concerned that even though i have done everything above board and tried to resolve the situation they might still give her favour as we had to leave site because she was threatening us and we had to call the police. There was a small amount of grouting to be done and silicone up.

I just wanted to check on the electrics side as im not an expert and her so called expert has insinuated that we are liable and thats why she now wants a refund

 

[malcolmsanford]

If she is indeed a chancer and is trying to blag some sort of payment out of you, then she will withdraw before the court case as your side will advise her that all cost will be incurred by her.

Normally a customer will only take you to court if they feel they have a good chance of winning. As you have posted your relationship with her was not the most cordial, and that part of you having to call the police to her house 3 times is amazing, I have to be honest I would have walked off site at the first call.

What concerns me is the 3rd party electrician. You say he identified that the installation was not up to standards. So what did he recommend to her and you. I'm going along the lines of did he ask you not to fit the kitchen until he had time to rectify the problems. I'm wondering if he did, you went ahead and fitted, and that when he came to work he created merry hell that the kitchen was fitted after him telling you not to, and the only way he could work now was by removing the kitchen.

If this is the case then did he put this to you in writing or was it just a verbal insturction

 

[oldtimer]

Yep Malcolm I agree with you
Old age does not come its self I can smell customers like this a mile away plus it helps when you are not desperate to get the job most customers if you treat them with courtesy and respect give you feedback in kind but yes I have been to jobs where they are like rotwilers when you walk in the door as they have been "bitten" in the past by cowboy Joe and in this situation I either walk away or "forget" to return the call.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Have you had any direct communication?

 

[Paul.M]

Sounds like all he has done is plug in 3 appliances. You have not done any electrical work and therefore not responsible for any of it. The words long walk and short pier come to mind if you have already tried to resolve this.

 

[i=p/u]

ive this all to look forward to someday, it is interesting

 

[telectrix]

ive this all to look forward to someday, it is interesting

why, you decided on a career change to kitchen fitter?

 

[i=p/u]

naw just dealing with asholes , its easy working fr someone else

 

[Paul.M]

Aaren don't think you've read the full thread mate. It's the kitchen fitter that has asked the question. His contract was to replace the kitchen and by doing so he plugged in 3 appliances and the customer wants a full kitchen rewire!

 

[ian.settle1]

Why not call her bluff and say you are going to counter sue her for deframation off character and loss off work from this, she what she does then