Napit

[MDJ]

Following on from Kate's comments about the minor works issue a few days back I thought I would invite your comments about the following, On Friday (yesterday) I had my annual (yearly) Inspection, Now I am an approved contractor not a domestic installer, however due to the minor works form discussion thread I asked my inspector who I like a lot and who IMO is very knowledgeable about the situation regarding part P and Napit etc, he said that Napit have tried to join the electrical safety register recently to join with the NICEIC and Elecsca but have been refused entry due to the fact they cannot guarantee annual inspections to electrical installation work to their members, he told me of one instance where it has been 4 years for one member since they were last inspected, at the meeting Napit were asked to comment about this and said nothing, they were basically ducking for cover, two things come to my mind, (1) if your a cowboy and don't want annual inspections join Napit, and (2) if you pay the annual fee, then can you take them to court for not giving you anything for your money? oh there is a (3) you accept it and don't care, discuss haha (MDJ HAS TIN HAT ON)

 

[telectrix]

of the three, nic, elecsa and napit, elecsa seem to be the only one that doesn't think it's god and owns the industry. niceic seem to want to rewrite the BS7671, while napit just want your hard-earned, and make up their own rules.

 

[MDJ]

Have to agree again with you Tel, the only thing I could say is shockingly the NICEIC inspector who looks at my business was very flattering about elecsa and talked almost as if the 2 of them were now one scammer? weird? However he slated Napit

 

[Spudnik]

Ive been with Elecsa from day one and never, ever had a problem with them, either way.

Yes, its a yearly cost, but, if i want to get on, its something i have to do.

Now that the ESR is online, this can only help improve our chances of 'publicity" with the industry.

Interestingly, i was skim reading connections mag, and i was wondering how Napit will fit in, and indeed, if they will last?

 

[trev]

Well my prediction is that the eca/elecsa are going to merge with nic and use their combined muscle to put all the other players out of the game.

 

[DaveyD]

Third year with Napit, just booked my third inspection. What's the problem?

 

[gazzamikes]

I was told napit a 'private' scammer as such and due to being refused entry and due to other factors there is a court case beginning against napit which will leave them without the self certification scheme. This was what I was told at Xmas by assessor. His biggest issue with them was their own rule making

 

[brucelee]

In the connections Magazine it says for now that Elecsa and NIC registered enterprises will still be assessed by there own scheme for the next few years

WHAT then

I joined ELECSA as they were the most friendly and helpful when first contacting unlike the NIC whose idea of advice or help was pay the fee and fill in the form lol

but if ELECSA are now basically becoming one entity along with NIC under the certsure then not sure if I want to stay with them and be dictated to by the NIC who I had no intention of joining

They reckon the part P reveiw was to make it easier for us , less cost and burden
suppose they mean by having no work as every Joker can do there own as most jobs not notifiable anymore and the ones that are will be able to be signed of by some 3rd party certifier

I think basicaly if we all stopped paying the fees or joining there scams whats the worst that could happen it all collapses and something better could them be brought in to replace such as just a register

and by elecsa and NIC joining together i think will just lead to more costs as they now have schemes for all sorts besides DI and approved complete scam and joke

 

[gazzamikes]

When I was doing my 2395 I was talking to a chap and he said he's never been part p just takes his quals and the test cert for the job they take copies and their happy. So why do we all bother?

 

[edrobbo8]

Had an interesting convo with Elecsa as my annual renewal fell the week after the new rules came in. So I said is it worth my while renewing, as probably 5% of my customers know about Part P, about the same again ask for an LABC certificate, so I put this to Elecsa who said they are spending x amount of pounds of the new register's marketing etc.

Later on I asked how the 3rd party certification is going to work, he said actually nobody knows as they have delayed that until September, I said what if I want to carry out a consumer unit change and get someone to 3rd party notify it, he said that there was no ruling in place to stop you doing that, the whole thing is a total pi55pot of a shambles.

 

[topcat]

I think that ELECSA and NIC will end up as one thats a shame as I dont want all the crap that nic come up with.

 

[markc123]

Third year with Napit, just booked my third inspection. What's the problem?

The minor works thread from the other day caused all this up-roar.

My opinions of Napit have firmly changed.

If they don't inspect all of there members every year then they are a disgrace to the trade. How the F are they getting away with that, i literally don't understand.

 

[DaveyD]

Ok. Thanks. Ill have a search.

 

[Jay Sparks]

The minor works thread from the other day caused all this up-roar.

My opinions of Napit have firmly changed.

If they don't inspect all of there members every year then they are a disgrace to the trade. How the F are they getting away with that, i literally don't understand.

This is how "Gas Safe" does it. They do your first inspection and it costs around £300. Then they do another one 18 months later...but thats it....they dont inspect your work again, UNLESS a customer puts in a complaint about your work...

 

[plugsandsparks]

NAPIT have been talking about a risk based assessment criteria for a while. I believe its the way they wanted to go as annually assessing some sparks was a waste of time but some less experienced and knowledgeable sparks needed more than an annual assessment. I fully undestand their position and think it has merit.
Whether they win this argument in the industry is ongoing, i believe.

 

[brucelee]

Elecsa and NIC are going to become one as in some of the literature i have read it seems for now they will carry on as it is under certsure and assessments will still be the same but it looks as if in next couple of years that will change looking at the wording of the connections magazine and other literature

As regards the 3rd party certifier Elecsa and JIB didnt have a clue with regards to this or Qs status
not one of them has any idea what they are doing is just all about scamming money from us

They told me that I can not carry out I&T of anothers persons work and notify through my scheme when i pushed him on the part p doc they said that they were delaying this because of issues regarding warranty provision
probably bring another qual out for this as well as more Garbage they come up with
I joined elecsa Not NIC and dont want to be under NIC Maybe they should have asked there members what they wanted before pushing ahead as its us who payes for there schemes and there wages

 

[trev]

Maybe they should have asked there members what they wanted before pushing ahead as its us who payes for there schemes and there wages

So you expect democracy and a service? Didn't have you down as the naïve type Bruce

 

[markc123]

This is how "Gas Safe" does it. They do your first inspection and it costs around £300. Then they do another one 18 months later...but thats it....they dont inspect your work again, UNLESS a customer puts in a complaint about your work...

I work with gas-safe registered lads every other day, and that's the very first i've ever heard of that. Learn something everyday cheers Jay.

NAPIT have been talking about a risk based assessment criteria for a while. I believe its the way they wanted to go as annually assessing some sparks was a waste of time but some less experienced and knowledgeable sparks needed more than an annual assessment. I fully undestand their position and think it has merit.
Whether they win this argument in the industry is ongoing, i believe.

Now to be fair - the way you've worded that, it's changed my mind a little from my gung-ho / angry comment earlier in this thread.

I can see what you're saying, and if it's the inexperienced ones that get inspected more often then i can see the sense in that - however, it should be the same with the NIC and Elecsa then. I don't like the idea of it being one rule for the napit lads, and then another rule for the rest of us - we're all in the same trade, it should be a level playing field throughout (which gets onto the argument of just having one bloody scheme, not several.)

The £444 that elecsa charge anually, i've always taken then anual inspection as part of the 'ridiculous' fee. If they were to ever change to inspecting less frequently i'd put a bet on that the price wouldn't come down.

The whole trade is full with contradictions / floors / badly worded itenery and obviouslly money making scumbags.

It should be 1 scheme, 1 rule for everyone. Siiiimples if you ask me, but then again the officeboys would be losing out financially so that'll never happen.

 

[oldtimer]

What gets me is how all of the scams have developed a dependency culture where they put this pretense up about being registered and wear that badge with pride . I have worked for years in repair and maintenance and the is a term used cause and effect so if you fit say a type of bearing to a motor and it fails after 6 months then cause and effect says you are fitting the wrong bearing yet if we apply this mentality to our trade who here on this forum could stand up and say the Schemies have been good for the trade ?.

In my view the Schemies have contributed to the poor standards and the state we are in today plus dont get me started on how other trades see us 20 years ago an electrician had a status on a site as the site manager knew what you had to do to get qualified.

So whats changed well basically nothing except the Schemies have hit paydirt as the don't give a ---- in this current economical climate that by the way has another 6-10 years to go and all they have done is drive costs up and seem to be content to preside over constant changes within our trade ie PIR-EICR, BRB-BGB revised GN3 revised ISI&TEE changes to certification . So all good for getting the sales up on the Scheme junkies who will need a course that by the way they will sell you.

Ironically the LBC's cannot police the system that is being ignored more and more ie walk into a DIY shed and you to can be a weekend electrician plus the notification police are not going to kick down the door and shout "This is a raid get that twin RCD consumer unit stripped out and put the old 3036 back in right now"

And to finish what are the Schemies doing about to lack of competent people they are badging who funny enough pass their annual inspection or worse still the big Bathroom,Kitchen and Sheds who's installation teams are using someone elses registration number to sign of a job. So better call it what it is a bl00dy mess or what the parlimentry committee called the Schemies conduct as a serious conflict of interests. No wonder they are merging as always just like rouge traders who get caught out they change their name and hope nobody notices as they no longer have any credibility

 

[Kate]

Sorry for starting a 'schemies' war!!

ive always had an annual inspection with NAPIT. I'm sure my assessor last year was telling me that there aren't as many assessors as normal and he has to cover a larger area, so maybe they are dealing with a backlog?? It's taken upto 3months from paying fee to get an inspection before but I still get one every year.

As for gas-safe, I'm sure that's not true. Not sure of assessmental intervals though. Don't u get a gas-safe ID?? Is it that they get inspected every time the ID needs renewing which could be every 3years?? My BFs father is gas-safe and I know he's had at least 2 inspections in last 4years. He's been self employed for 30+years and has been gas-safe since forever!

All this scheme talk is not helping, I'm due for renewal soon and normally I would just renew with NAPIT but now they all sound shyte!!!

 

[oldtimer]

Just to add I have lost count of the older sparks of 56 and over who have just said NO I am sick of having to go back to college to get qualified and the amount of employers who are accomodating them . This cannot be right as they are driving experience out of the trade

 

[trev]

When I served my time the company I worked for had a period when everyone was flapping about and things were checked and double checked then checked again, the reason I found out later was because the NIC were coming for an inspection to see if we were worthy of their badge. At the time it was seen as a badge worth having and one that meant something. How many of us now join the schemes for that reason or do we do it just because we have to? I haven't done it because I don't need to but I can see a day coming when it will be necessary.

 

[Taylortwocities]

I'm with NAPIT. Joined when Part P came on the scene.
I had my initial assessment, one two years later and have only had one since.

I asked about this, and yes its done on a risk-based assessment. Obviously I didn't ask any tricky questions and have kept my nose clean.
I don't really care if they never come round. Its a waste of half a day for me.

As the above. I talked to my LABC about the reduced notification requirements. I know them, they know me. They are happy to take my BS7671 certs as collateral for BR sign off so, going forward, i may just bail out of the scams and save myself some dosh.

 

[Kate]

I'm with NAPIT. Joined when Part P came on the scene.
I had my initial assessment, one two years later and have only had one since.

I asked about this, and yes its done on a risk-based assessment. Obviously I didn't ask any tricky questions and have kept my nose clean.
I don't really care if they never come round. Its a waste of half a day for me.

As the above. I talked to my LABC about the reduced notification requirements. I know them, they know me. They are happy to take my BS7671 certs as collateral for BR sign off so, going forward, i may just bail out of the scams and save myself some dosh.

Balls..so when I chase up for them to set a date for an inspection I'm sort of shooting myself in the foot!! I've I'd have known it wasnt a requirement I wouldn't keep asking for it!!

 

[brucelee]

they are supposed to be assessing annually

when i applied for JIB card with Qs status I was informed as i was with Elecsa my regsitration certificate and documents had to dated within 3 months of my asssessment but if i was with NIC or napit it didnt

this sounded like double standards
so when i emailed JIB again was told that this was becasue Elecsa had agreed to assess us at 3 monthly intervals to which i replied we dont its annual

she said that if elecsa had changed there assessment criteria that they would have to contact jIB and discuss with them so i contacted elecsa and they contacted JIB on my behalf and at the end of it I am still no wiser was jsut told it was so a applicant couldnt apply for JIB Qs status with a month or 2 left and then fail the assessment but still have a card for the next 12 months
they said that the lady at the JIB knew the criteria but I am still no wiser anyway received MY JIB card and a seperate Qs card white
I asked why seperate card i thought it was supposed to be on the ecs gold card and do you not include it on that
she said yes
Think it was because i couldnt get section 10 signed by employer or someone I had subbied for
the white card only lasts for 12 months and has to be renewed at a cost of £8+ so more money werethe ecs card is for 3 yrs
anyway dont know anymore I am just confused with the lot of it and have basically given up asking lol

My assessment with elecsa was late last year due to backlog was about 14 months since last one
I was told when i rang to check in case they had forgot
just didnt want to get a letter through the door saying I had missed it and have to pay a extra fee

 

[MDJ]

Balls..so when I chase up for them to set a date for an inspection I'm sort of shooting myself in the foot!! I've I'd have known it wasnt a requirement I wouldn't keep asking for it!!

Kate someone like yourself who is a professional should join ELECSA or the NICEIC and get yourself on the electrical safety register, I can tell your a proper spark with credit by your posting and concerns, fair play to you, it could help you get more work and respect, most local authorities like these schemes because of annual assessments and the right insurances etc, Regardless of what's posted here about the Scams, in reality some are laughed at by architects and consultants because they do not monitor their contractors regularly, tin hat on and asbestos gloves as well he he, seriously unless Napit start to get a grip on this they will fall away and lose ground, if you phone for inspections you must feel your not getting your money's worth, try a different scheme, doesn't have to be NICEIC, try ELECSA

 

[Kate]

I am on elec safe register and another i forget the name of, although NAPIT did **** me off slightly by not confirming the details they put on there. Included my landline number and it never gets used, only have one for broadband, we rarely answer it here. Wonder if I miss calls regularly???

my insurance renews about 5weeks after my NAPIT membership so I may have to consider 5weeks without membership or overlap 2 insurance policies. Would have to look up the terms of my insurance as im not sure if I have to be a NAPIT member to have valid insurance.

So your NICEIC, can you get electronic copies of the certificates? I've gotten used to typing them up, it may take a lot longer but it looks so much better.

thank you for the compliment, I do take pride in my work

 

[trev]

I'd say that it doesn't matter who your insurance provider is as long as you have it.

 

[brucelee]

Kate you can transfer from one scheme to another just contact the one you want to go with and they should sort it and prob inform the old one you want to leave as for insurance its valid whoever your with

 

[SparkyJoe]

Im with napit, Haven't had a problem with them, does what it says on the tin. Id like to bet £1 that NICEIC domestic installer scheme vanish's and everyone ends up on elecsa for domestic / part p etc tho.

 

[brucelee]

Yeah prob end up were its NIC for approved contractor and elecsa for DI

even though at present under elecsa your classed as approved contractor think if you want official recognition though for clients you may have to also join ECA WHICH i KEEP GETTING BOMBARDED WITH EMAILS TO DO LOL

 

[MDJ]

I am on elec safe register and another i forget the name of, although NAPIT did **** me off slightly by not confirming the details they put on there. Included my landline number and it never gets used, only have one for broadband, we rarely answer it here. Wonder if I miss calls regularly???

my insurance renews about 5weeks after my NAPIT membership so I may have to consider 5weeks without membership or overlap 2 insurance policies. Would have to look up the terms of my insurance as im not sure if I have to be a NAPIT member to have valid insurance.

So your NICEIC, can you get electronic copies of the certificates? I've gotten used to typing them up, it may take a lot longer but it looks so much better.

thank you for the compliment, I do take pride in my work

yep certificates are computerised

 

[markc123]

Yeah prob end up were its NIC for approved contractor and elecsa for DI

even though at present under elecsa your classed as approved contractor think if you want official recognition though for clients you may have to also join ECA WHICH i KEEP GETTING BOMBARDED WITH EMAILS TO DO LOL

Im with elecsa and the ECA - don't have a problem with the ECA, on the odd occasion when ive had to ring the helpline they've actually been helpful

 

[brucelee]

Hi marc whats the extra cost of that annually

 

[markc123]

Hi marc whats the extra cost of that annually

Im about to say this with tears streaming down my eyes, and a burning arsehole...

It's £460 (roughly) for a ECA membership for the year. Elecsa are part of the ECA and they do the anual inspection (part-p) on behalf of the ECA which costs an extra £444 anually.

So, just over £900 per year for ECA and Elecsa.

Because they work in conjunction with themselves, i often get confused lol. On a post the other day on this forum, which i can't find because i can't remember the name of....someone questioned me when i said the schools around here accept elecsa, i meant ECA.

The reason im a member of the ECA aswell is because the brand brings in aditional work - i've had countless clients recently discover me from the ECA website, otherwise i'd just stick with elecsa. ECA, are just about on par with the NIC 'recognition-wise' around these parts at the moment.

Now, my arse has gone from a deep burn to a steady bleed.

 

[Jay Sparks]

Im about to say this with tears streaming down my eyes, and a burning arsehole...

It's £460 (roughly) for a ECA membership for the year. Elecsa are part of the ECA and they do the anual inspection (part-p) on behalf of the ECA which costs an extra £444 anually.

So, just over £900 per year for ECA and Elecsa.

Because they work in conjunction with themselves, i often get confused lol. On a post the other day on this forum, which i can't find because i can't remember the name of....someone questioned me when i said the schools around here accept elecsa, i meant ECA.

The reason im a member of the ECA aswell is because the brand brings in aditional work - i've had countless clients recently discover me from the ECA website, otherwise i'd just stick with elecsa. ECA, are just about on par with the NIC 'recognition-wise' around these parts at the moment.

Now, my arse has gone from a deep burn to a steady bleed.

This just proves how much I read/take intrest in, the Elecsa stuff. This is my second year with them and I new they were part of the ECA but didnt realise you had to pay again to join ECA!!!! Is it worth the extra £400+ Mark?? Did you get new clients quite quickly? I am looking at ways to bring in more clients but everything I think of is too blinking expensive!!lol

 

[markc123]

This just proves how much I read/take intrest in, the Elecsa stuff. This is my second year with them and I new they were part of the ECA but didnt realise you had to pay again to join ECA!!!! Is it worth the extra £400+ Mark?? Did you get new clients quite quickly? I am looking at ways to bring in more clients but everything I think of is too blinking expensive!!lol

Well, put it this way - if you're a official member without paying im travelling to their head office and torching it lol.

I don't really wonna say Jay because i'd hate for you to pay the extra and it not work out. But, for me personally it's been benefitial.

3moths ago, a scottish man had bought a holiday house in the area and he had got our name through the ECA website because he knew of nobody around here.

A few privately owned caravan-parks around here have had our name off the ECA website. - and i've done continuous work for them now for a few years, so in time that's paid off.

This is why im lead to believe that the ECA have an on-par reputation with the NIC around North.Yorks.

Whats worked for me, might not work for others though - so your call Jay lol. I may have just been lucky, who knows - maybe someone else on the forum is in the same posistion as me to add more input?

 

[Jay Sparks]

Well, put it this way - if you're a official member without paying im travelling to their head office and torching it lol.

I don't really wonna say Jay because i'd hate for you to pay the extra and it not work out. But, for me personally it's been benefitial.

3moths ago, a scottish man had bought a holiday house in the area and he had got our name through the ECA website because he knew of nobody around here.

A few privately owned caravan-parks around here have had our name off the ECA website. - and i've done continuous work for them now for a few years, so in time that's paid off.

This is why im lead to believe that the ECA have an on-par reputation with the NIC around North.Yorks.

Whats worked for me, might not work for others though - so your call Jay lol. I may have just been lucky, who knows - maybe someone else on the forum is in the same posistion as me to add more input?

Cheers mark, not many caravan parks round here, unless you count gypo's....lol. Its always a gamble when you try something new. I am on yell.crap and im paying nearly £100 a month, I've had I call from it.....not gonna bother with them again when it runs out..lol






Jay

 

[markc123]

I wouldn't like to know what the state of the electrics is on some of these gypo-parks lol.









Mark.

 

[markc123]

P.s. the extra-long space between the post and my name was in reference/pi$$ take to your last post Jay, and the unnecessary 7-10lines between the post and your name