SWA CLEATS IN WOODEN GARDEN SHED

[ELECNEWT]

Is there any requirement or logic to using fire-retardant cable cleats for SWA inside a wooden shed?

There will be a 2 metre vertical run and a 3 metre horizontal run of 4mm 3 core SWA.

 

[Cid]

Yes. For what it costs its best to do the job correctly first time.

 

[andyb]

Cid's probly right but personally I don't see the point.
It's a wooden shed, if it's on fire then I see no benefit in having fire retardent clips whatsoever. There will be no one alive in it and no one entering.
If the wall which the swa is on is hot enough to melt pvc cleats, then trust me, there is no wall.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Bottom line is , the regs require fire proof fixings to prevent collapse.
As crazy as it seems to fit fire proof fixings to a wooden shed which would just go up like a tinder , just use metal to tick the box.
A bit of bandy will do the job.

 

[telectrix]

use wooden clips. they only fail when the wooden structure fails. sorted.

 

[KEV 1 N]

use wooden clips. they only fail when the wooden structure fails. sorted.

That “wooden” work!!

 

[suffolkspark]

Are firefighters going to enter your shed when its on fire and get entangled? No. Just clip it.

 

[KEV 1 N]

Are firefighters going to enter your shed when its on fire and get entangled? No. Just clip it.

These guys might.........

 

[MJPD29]

No need for fire retardant fixings in a wooden shed. Normal clips or cleats will do. Common sense shall prevail.

 

[peterhyper]

We can fix a consumer unit to wood with the rear entry open for cables to enter, and the massive entry hole doesn't have to be sealed, but some people really think you can't use cleats in a wooden shed as it could be a fire risk. Not sure how many firemen would be going inside a burning shed to save the lawnmower.

 

[DefyG]

Is there any requirement or logic to using fire-retardant cable cleats for SWA inside a wooden shed?

Is it a dwelling? No, so probably not in the same way that plastic/combustible cu's are still permitted in sheds/outbuildings.

 

[ipf]

Just don't use it as a job example for an assessssssssment......

 

[Deleted member 9648]

The regulations simply state that wiring systems shall be constructed to prevent premature collapse in the event of fire, there is no mention of type of installation....shed....domestic....commercial....industrial. Nor does it say common sense can be applied,it's a blanket requirement no matter how daft it might seem. Hence the disagrees to some of the above posts. If you ignore the requirement it's a departure, your call if you want to justify it on your EIC.

 

[suffolkspark]

Premature collapse is the key..... The shed will be up and gone in minutes so normal clips will be just fine

 

[MJPD29]

The regulations simply state that wiring systems shall be constructed to prevent premature collapse in the event of fire, there is no mention of type of installation....shed....domestic....commercial....industrial. Nor does it say common sense can be applied,it's a blanket requirement no matter how daft it might seem. Hence the disagrees to some of the above posts. If you ignore the requirement it's a departure, your call if you want to justify it on your EIC.

Yeah I can justify it it's absolutely pointless

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Yeah I can justify it it's absolutely pointless

I agree it's pointless but nevertheless it's a regulation. I've done several jobs lately in situations where it seems crazy, but TBH it only adds a few minutes to screw a bit of strap in a couple of places to meet the requirement.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Yeah I can justify it it's absolutely pointless

I agree it's pointless but nevertheless it's a regulation. But it only takes a minute or two to screw a bit of strap on here and there to meet the requirement

 

[peterhyper]

I think all wooden sheds should have sprinkler systems installed just to be on the safe side.

 

[KEV 1 N]

I think all wooden sheds should have sprinkler systems installed just to be on the safe side.

.......and be lined with asbestos boards !

 

[GBDamo]

The regulations simply state that wiring systems shall be constructed to prevent premature collapse in the event of fire, there is no mention of type of installation....shed....domestic....commercial....industrial. Nor does it say common sense can be applied,it's a blanket requirement no matter how daft it might seem. Hence the disagrees to some of the above posts. If you ignore the requirement it's a departure, your call if you want to justify it on your EIC.

There's the answer, the wiring system will not collapse prematurely as the structure it is attached to will be in a state of collapse already by the time PVC cleats fail.

Also while no mention of the type of building, the intention is to prevent entanglement of emergency response personnel if they enter a building with a collapsed wiring system.

No firefighter is going to enter a shed other than to rescue a person and I can't recall there being a single case of shed based self immolation, so the whole discussion is moot.

Well it's mootier still as, in the infinitesimally small chance that a firefighter does enter and become entangled, who can prove what failed first and where.

This is so nonsensical I'm wondering if it's trolling?

 

[GBDamo]

I think all wooden sheds should have sprinkler systems installed just to be on the safe side.

And a fire escape lit by a three hour emergency light. I'm even wondering if an automated response fire alarm is warranted?

 

[Deleted member 9648]

There's the answer, the wiring system will not collapse prematurely as the structure it is attached to will be in a state of collapse already by the time PVC cleats fail.

Also while no mention of the type of building, the intention is to prevent entanglement of emergency response personnel if they enter a building with a collapsed wiring system.

No firefighter is going to enter a shed other than to rescue a person and I can't recall there being a single case of shed based self immolation, so the whole discussion is moot.

Well it's mootier still as, in the infinitesimally small chance that a firefighter does enter and become entangled, who can prove what failed first and where.

This is so nonsensical I'm wondering if it's trolling?

I understand entirely your point of view, but I disagree. I do not see any provision for the application of common sense or making a judgement in the regulation. If the reg was open to the installer making a judgement on whether it is required then there would be plenty of cases where it should be installed but wouldn't be. I'ts a blanket requirement.

 

[peterhyper]

I better not mention to anyone, that today I used some plastic clips to support twin and earth in a loft on wooden beams.

 

[Toneyz]

I better not mention to anyone, that today I used some plastic clips to support twin and earth in a loft on wooden beams.

I was in a well known national wholesaler today and they had T&E metal clips (also they had Am3 yellow regs books on a stand still for sale)

 

[peterhyper]

I understand entirely your point of view, but I disagree. I do not see any provision for the application of common sense or making a judgement in the regulation. If the reg was open to the installer making a judgement on whether it is required then there would be plenty of cases where it should be installed but wouldn't be. I'ts a blanket requirement.

Few sparks haven't used some common sense from time to time regardless of the regs, just as not everyone drives at 30mph in a 30mph zone. I once knew someone that got up to almost 35mph in a 30mph zone, and it played on my mind for weeks after whether I should have reported him to the feds.

 

[GBDamo]

I understand entirely your point of view, but I disagree. I do not see any provision for the application of common sense or making a judgement in the regulation. If the reg was open to the installer making a judgement on whether it is required then there would be plenty of cases where it should be installed but wouldn't be. I'ts a blanket requirement.

And truth be told I'd probably use fire retardant clips but I'd be cussing like a sailor whilst doing it.

 

[westward10]

There's the answer, the wiring system will not collapse prematurely as the structure it is attached to will be in a state of collapse already by the time PVC cleats fail.

Also while no mention of the type of building, the intention is to prevent entanglement of emergency response personnel if they enter a building with a collapsed wiring system.

No firefighter is going to enter a shed other than to rescue a person and I can't recall there being a single case of shed based self immolation, so the whole discussion is moot.

Well it's mootier still as, in the infinitesimally small chance that a firefighter does enter and become entangled, who can prove what failed first and where.

This is so nonsensical I'm wondering if it's trolling?

Do the Regulations actually state the requirements for support methods are for the benefit of the emergency services.

 

[rolyberkin]

The regulations simply state that wiring systems shall be constructed to prevent premature collapse in the event of fire, there is no mention of type of installation....shed....domestic....commercial....industrial. Nor does it say common sense can be applied,it's a blanket requirement no matter how daft it might seem. Hence the disagrees to some of the above posts. If you ignore the requirement it's a departure, your call if you want to justify it on your EIC.

It can never be a departure, a departure needs to have a degree of safety not less than the regulations.

 

[GBDamo]

Do the Regulations actually state the requirements for support methods are for the benefit of the emergency services.

No but a big deal was made of the reason prior to the 18th and at my 18th course so I think we all know why this reg was brought in.

 

[rolyberkin]

Slightly off topic but would this comply with requirement for fixings to prevent premature collapse Dewalt DCN701N.

DeWalt DCN701N 18v XR Electrician's Stapler - Bare Unit - https://www.mytoolshed.co.uk/dewalt-dcn701n-18v-xr-electrician-s-stapler-bare-unit.html?gclid=CjwKCAjw2cTmBRAVEiwA8YMgzRJkTFhq2qq7alpOwD_ZsXIrACvEOQE0qBDRh7diistlH8-QeqTINBoCE5gQAvD_BwE

 

[Octopus]

Hum .... we can use plastic Cu’s in sheds so presumably metals aren’t necessary .......

 

[Octopus]

Hum .... we can use plastic Cu’s in sheds so presumably metal clips for cables aren’t necessary .......

 

[Deleted member 9648]

I better not mention to anyone, that today I used some plastic clips to support twin and earth in a loft on wooden beams.

I believe a plasterboard ceiling is deemed adequate support for the wiring in the event of a fire, so plastic clips to joists in a roof space would be acceptable.

 

[peterhyper]

I believe a plasterboard ceiling is deemed adequate support for the wiring in the event of a fire, so plastic clips to joists in a roof space would be acceptable.

Would the shed not then require a plasterboard ceiling using that criteria?

 

[ipf]

NEWS!.....18th edition amendment 1, requirement...…..all garden sheds to be replaced with Anderson shelters...…...and wired in pyro.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Would the shed not then require a plasterboard ceiling using that criteria?

Er…..No
The criteria is that if there is a plasterboard ceiling then cables secured to the joists above with plastic clips are deemed to meet the requirement, in that the ceiling will prevent the cables falling into accessible areas before the fire causes structural collapse. Clearly that is unlikely to apply to the average shed

 

[Generator]

Just use a few galvanised saddles - probably cheaper anyway. They won't fail till the wall burns down - that's 'structural failure'.
Can't see what all the fuss is about!
Do we want the shed to burn down and leave the cables standing?