Unqualified, inexperienced badged "electricians"

[highspark]

How can we put an end to this drivel? Why is there people out there unqualified and inexperienced bluffing their way into work. Taking work from fully qualified time served lads?Theres a couple in my area. Driving round in vans with schemes tatooed all over them. They look the biz - the outfit. But I know they are not electricians. They are chancers bluffing their way through. The 17th Edition minimum requirement to have a schemes backing...its a farce. The problem I have is the customers can't differenciate from a fully qualified. 17th edition, 2391, tech cert nvq3 electrician from a 17th edition short course idiot! It boils my blood

 

[Engineer54]

You make a good point, but a chippie with 5 weeks intensive electrical training and subject to an annual assessment sticking a few extra sockets in a kitchen is better than a chippie with none of the above doing it, and thats what he undoubtably would have done pre part P.

Hell I'm just gonna throw caution to the wind and say it......I have no problem with part P. Im glad its there, a lot of my work is kitchen and bathroom refurbs and before part P a lot of the fitters tell me they used to do a lot of the wiring themselves, now they won't touch it. This is good for me. I like being assessed once a year, it keeps me on my toes and up to scratch. I dont mind paying the £350 reg fee, its worth it for me.

I hear far more often "my old electrician retired early because of part P so I need a new one" than "sorry your price has been beaten by a guy who was working at tescos 2 months ago but is now a registered sparky" again, this is all good for me.

I think a lot of what fuels the hatred amongst old timers is 1: fear of change and 2: fear of competition.
To be fair though, Im young I've never known anything else.

Can't believe just how niaeve and short sighted you are!!

By the way, there's no hatred by the older sparky's, ''Dismay and non-belief'' maybe!

The older sparky's here have witnessed and been through more changes than you've seen to date... Fear yes!! ...But not of your niaeve and short sighted suggested fears. They fear for the future, and what you Electrical Trainee boy's are going to do to our once respected industry!! And quite rightly too...

You like the Part Pee scam provider system, because it's given you for that 350/450 quid those magic words ''competent electrician'' status!! It gives the Electrical Trainee a false sense of respectability, that isn't in reality, valid anywhere else outside of the world of DI scheme providers.... Without these scheme providers you'd all be dead in the water, for sure you'd never get taken on by any of the major or bigger contracting companies, certainly not as an electrician of any description....

 

[Dave 85]

Dont forget mate, that chippie may have trained as a carpenter for five years but it doesn't mean that you can't stick 'and carpenter' on the side of your van and have a crack at fitting a few kitchens. Works both ways.

 

[Welchyboy]

Dont forget mate, that chippie may have trained as a carpenter for five years but it doesn't mean that you can't stick 'and carpenter' on the side of your van and have a crack at fitting a few kitchens. Works both ways.

I could put brain surgeon on the side of my van too but doubt the association of brain surgeons would let me use their logo!

(not comparing domestic electrics with brain surgery by the way but you get the point)

 

[Dave 85]

Can't believe just how niaeve and short sighted you are!!

By the way, there's no hatred by the older sparky's, ''Dismay and non-belief'' maybe!

The older sparky's here have witnessed and been through more changes than you've seen to date... Fear yes!! ...But not of your niaeve and short sighted suggested fears. They fear for the future, and what you Electrical Trainee boy's are going to do to our once respected industry!! And quite rightly too...

You like the Part Pee scam provider system, because it's given you for that 350/450 quid those magic words ''competent electrician'' status!! It gives the Electrical Trainee a false sense of respectability, that isn't in reality, valid anywhere else outside of the world of DI scheme providers.... Without these scheme providers you'd all be dead in the water, for sure you'd never get taken on by any of the major or bigger contracting companies, certainly not as an electrician of any description....

I have already stated, I am not a five week wonder, I trained for 3 and a half years. You have to understand that not everyone is as narrow minded as you are, just because I am defending part P does not automatically mean I only trained for 5 weeks does it?

And for your information, pal, even if I was a Electrical Trainee, I have no intention of working for any 'big contracting companies' I run my own business, have done for 3 years, very successfully. I like doing domestic work, I like the freindly atmosphere and relationship with the clients, the sociable hours, the lack of health and safety ----'s and risk assessments and the money. I also like working alongside people who are capable of thinking for themselves.

With regards to 'respectability' or how respected 'your' industry is, I couldn't give a ----. I am highly respected by my clients and other trades who I work with/for and I was respected by my college tutors for my ability to learn quickley and generally top of the class exam results, so in all honesty, im not going to lose any sleep over not being respected by some miserable old bigot on the interenet falsly accusing me of attending a short training course (which I wish I had.)

 

[alarm man]

This seems to have descended it an argument between, on the one side, people working in industrial maintenance type jobs and (alarm fitters?)

alarm fitter..ive been called worse mind,im a spark,properly trained apprentice route jib,done controls/marine and industrial,before moving into security like many a proper spark has

 

[Octopus]

A 17 year old can pass their theory test and driving test - does that mean they are safe on the roads?????

I would venture to suggest that a recently "PASSED" 17 old at the wheel could be a far, far, bigger danger to the public than a Electrical Trainee.

 

[telectrix]

@ dave 85. which scam are you with at £350? that's £100 less than elecsa!

 

[Adam W]

A 17 year old can pass their theory test and driving test - does that mean they are safe on the roads?????

I would venture to suggest that a recently "PASSED" 17 old at the wheel could be a far, far, bigger danger to the public than a Electrical Trainee.

That's an interesting theory. Similarly a Electrical Trainee is just as good as a time served electrician to a blind man on a galloping horse; even more so if you consider the plight of children dying of starvation in Africa.

 

[Engineer54]

If your not a Electrical Trainee Then your a dammed sight more short sighted and niaeve than i first gave you credit for!! You and people like you, are exactly what the older sparky's fear most, Those that don't give a ---- about this industry. Just another Me, Me,, Me guy!!! Naivety has it's costs, as you will find out!! ...lol!!

Just wondering why you needed to tell us, just how highly respected you are, ...by just about everyone it seems?? ...lol!!

I maybe many things to many people, but i'm certainly no bigot, ...and i'm certainly no-bodies fool either!! ...lol!!

Oh, and only Fools, Electrical Trainee's and their dogs support Part Pee, let alone paying for it!!

 

[alarm man]

well hopefully after this besna thing is put to be bed the unions will be going in for the kill and after the agencies and the poor training providers,and protecting the industry from the charlatans,things are looking up for a change..

 

[nickblake]

When i started i was green 15th edition was just about out i went to college and served my time then got lost for a few years and came back and sat my 16th edition followed by my 2391 followed by 2400 then for a giggle my 2377 then 17th edition ive seen work by inexperianced guys and some of the one week wonders my belife is that you should have a good few years working for a company before you go it alone as i did this way you gain the experiance ,prime example small recently qualified spark gets a call to a fault on a light lost neutral so he took the ceiling down only to discover a fault in the light fitting in the next room , disruption devistation ,inexperiance with a bit of experiance he would not have ended up with egg on his face with all the time ive drummed my self to build up my knowlage and after 30 years im still learning

 

[TaffyDuck]

Oh, and only Fools, Electrical Trainee's and their dogs support Part Pee, let alone paying for it!!

Well when Part P was first put forward I was all for it. In my opinion then it would cut the dross out of the market place. Unfortunately the opposite seems to have happened. I`m afraid I`m one of the fools who pays for it though, I have no choice tbh. No Part P no business but I dont have to like it.

 

[TaffyDuck]

Its interesting that a large proportion of the adds that appear on this forum are from these fast track colleges though.

 

[Octopus]

Its interesting that a large proportion of the adds that appear on this forum are from these fast track colleges though.

With the number of new members joining makes me wonder if they give out the forum details on week 1

 

[telectrix]

With the number of new members joining makes me wonder if they give out the forum details on week 1.

well, that explains it. these course providers get £££££££££s for the courses and us mugs on the forum do half their work for free.

 

[highspark]

I think he meant to renew membership. Elecsa are £350 I think. Napit £408 and I dnt care about the niceic

 

[paulrutterford]

I am 38 and trying to change career. I think my chances of an apprenticeship are pretty slim and I don't have mates in the business. Neither have I the finance to do a full degree so I'm hoping to get some electrician's mate work after I complete the practical training side of the distance learning course I'm on. I understand what you're saying about people who are not conscientious, but I wouldn't knock the course. For some of us, it is the only option.
Secondly, my previous business was hard to break in to and there are some established practitioners who do a pretty shoddy job - in my opinion - because their income is pretty much secured by the dearth of opportunities for newcomers.

 

[Dave 85]

@ dave 85. which scam are you with at £350? that's £100 less than elecsa!

I am actually with elecsa mate, I don't take much notice of what they bill me for assessment cos its direct debited but it was around the £350 mark when I first joined 3 yr ago if I recall correctly.

 

[ipf]

B******s to this lot, I'm giving it all up to be an airline pilot.....new 5 week course..... latest offer from Virgin.

 

[telectrix]

yeah, but with virgin, you are restricted to balloon flying for 2 years till you get more experience.

 

[Dave 85]

B******s to this lot, I'm giving it all up to be an airline pilot.....new 5 week course..... latest offer from Virgin.

I heard its 120k training then 90k a year for BA apparently. Not bad if you got the money to train.

 

[dixon9]

Of course industrial work is far more technically challenging and requires greater education and technical knowledge, but no serious company is going to emply a Electrical Trainee to do this typr of work. The domestic, self employed, running a small firm whatever route requires less technaical knowledge but requires far more of other skills: Social skills, business sense, good judgement, ability to work quickley and efficently, customer interaction, dispute solving, book keeping...I could go on for ever.

Off on a slight tangent here but....

Sorry but I have to strongly disagree with you there. I have and do work in both industrial and domestic sectors and my opinion is that the OPPOSITE is true.

Most commercial electricians spend their time carrying out the instructions of the designer. They could be days at a time making off and terminating SWA, pulling through cables, pulling up floor sockets etc etc... In general it can be very boring work and not technically challenging. Reference methods, cable calcs etc...most do not perform these tasks. Testing? Most aren't even interested in this side or don't know a great deal about the theory behind it. Those that do test I would put on a par with most all-round domestic sparks.

You could argue that the designers in the commercial industry have greater knowledge but even then I'm not 100% convinced. Mosern domestic design can be just as challenging in a lot of cases.

The all-round domestic spark has to perform ALL tasks. The common fallacy (that has always amazed me), is that because commercial sparks work with higher voltages and currents that the work must be somehow "superior".

 

[Engineer54]

Are you saying that a fully qualified industrial electrician is not up to the standard of a Domestic installer?? ....hahaha!! Go on tell me that's what you saying??

 

[D80]

Are you saying that a fully qualified industrial electrician is not up to the standard of a Domestic installer?? ....hahaha!! Go on tell me that's what you saying??

These days NIC DI > NIC AC

 

[highspark]

Don't think he's saying that tbh. I think what he is saying is that no matter what what sector you are in the principles are all the same. He is right in the sense that domestic spark will tend to reference the regs more rather than following someone else's design

 

[Engineer54]

These days NIC DI > NIC AC

Thankfully, ...i don't think you'll find the NIC presence in the industrial sector. Maybe only in outside contractor side of things...

 

[gdr7671]

exactly it's become a joke now.

 

[alarm man]

Off on a slight tangent here but....

Sorry but I have to strongly disagree with you there. I have and do work in both industrial and domestic sectors and my opinion is that the OPPOSITE is true.

Most commercial electricians spend their time carrying out the instructions of the designer. They could be days at a time making off and terminating SWA, pulling through cables, pulling up floor sockets etc etc... In general it can be very boring work and not technically challenging. Reference methods, cable calcs etc...most do not perform these tasks. Testing? Most aren't even interested in this side or don't know a great deal about the theory behind it. Those that do test I would put on a par with most all-round domestic sparks.

You could argue that the designers in the commercial industry have greater knowledge but even then I'm not 100% convinced. Mosern domestic design can be just as challenging in a lot of cases.

The all-round domestic spark has to perform ALL tasks. The common fallacy (that has always amazed me), is that because commercial sparks work with higher voltages and currents that the work must be somehow "superior".

if its that hard why are all the office boys jumping out of their chairs to be a di,

 

[TaffyDuck]

Well we do 80% domestic, 10% commercial 10% Light industrial. Its rare that we have designers involved in comm/Ind as its nearly all upgrades but the truth is that in domestic as long as you follow a few basic principles you dont need to worry too much about voltage drop, segregation ,external influences, banks of IT, etc etc etc. Thats a day to day issue outside of domestic so cant say I agree Dixon

 

[dixon9]

Are you saying that a fully qualified industrial electrician is not up to the standard of a Domestic installer?? ....hahaha!! Go on tell me that's what you saying??

Of course I am not saying that.

I am referring to industrial and commercial electricians compared to domestic electricians (in general). Please see quote I responded to in the post.