UK Wiring emergency lights

[Scifen]

Hi Guys, how would you wire three gang two way switch for emergency lights so you have 3 feeds coming to the switch aswell as 3, 3 core and earth going to the light aswell as 3, 3 core and earth being strappers to the others 3 gang two way switch new to electrics so help would be appreciated cheers

 

[littlespark]

Lets get this straight... you have 3 rows of lights(?) all 2 wayed from 2 positions. 3 switches at each door or whatever.
You are adding an emergency light?
You need an unswitched live in addition to any switchwire or neutrals to the emergency fitting. Looping through other fittings if nessecery.
You may want to switch this live through a keyswitch... which would mean one of your 3 gangs need to be 4 gang

You could draw out a circuit that you think it needs, and we will see if you’re on the right track

 

[Scifen]

The way it was wired there was 9 cables at the switch 6, 3 core and earths and 3 feeds would it be the 3 brown feeds to the com neutrals in wago and earths in wago plastic fitting. Use the 3 greys going to the light as switch lines and put the blacks in wagos as neutrals. And for the strappers 3 core and earths put the brown in the com. and black in wago and grey in wago. The electrician who wired never told me how he wired it just asking would you know what he did

 

[Dustydazzler]

Don’t use black as N . Sleeve the grey with blue

Use black sleeved brown as a swi line

Although some will disagree and use black sleeved brown as perm live and brown as swi line

 

[Scifen]

So if I use brown as permanent black as switched live and grey as neutral is that the correct way to wire the three gang two ways switch

 

[westward10]

Providing all cores are correctly identified it is irrelevant whether you use black or grey as neutral. There is no set rule to this.

 

[Dustydazzler]

De neutralising black was in the 16/17th iirc

 

[Scifen]

For the strappers is it ok to put the black and grey in wagos as long as the brown goes the the com of the two switches

 

[Dustydazzler]

So if I use brown as permanent black as switched live and grey as neutral is that the correct way to wire the three gang two ways switch

That’s how I do it , with black / grey as strippers

 

[westward10]

De neutralising black was in the 16/17th iirc

That is irrelevant as long as cores are correctly identified.

 

[Scifen]

What do you do with black and grey for strappers

 

[littlespark]

What do you do with black and grey for strappers

Brown sleeving in both to distinguish them as live conductors (switch wires)

You’re not really changing what the previous spark did, so how he wired it is irrelevant.
You are adding one core, supplying an emergency fitting with a permanent live which isn’t there at the moment.

 

[davesparks]

De neutralising black was in the 16/17th iirc

No it wasn't, there has never been a 'de neutralising'

 

[Dustydazzler]

No it wasn't, there has never been a 'de neutralising'

I had a thing from the niceic around the time of harmonisation it was a big A4 leaflet about de neutralise black when converting old colours to new. Think several cable manufacturers also produced their own leaflets of de neutral black as well...

It’s even in the brown on site guide I think

Will try to dig it out later

 

[Andy78]

I had a thing from the niceic around the time of harmonisation.

It’s was a big A4 leaflet about de neutralise black when converting old colours to new.

It’s even in the brown on site guide I think

Will try to dig it out later

All I have ever seen is advice about old colours and how they correspond to new colours, but not how to oversleeve harmonised colours for different uses.

 

[westward10]

Not a Regulation then.

 

[Dustydazzler]

All I have ever seen is advice about old colours and how they correspond to new colours, but not how to oversleeve harmonised colours for different uses.

The official guidance from the iee and niceic at the time was to not use black as neutral post harmonisation.
It was to use grey sleeved blue.
Black sleeved g/y

 

[Andy78]

The official guidance from the iee and niceic at the time was to not use black as neutral post harmonisation.
It was to use grey sleeved blue.
Black sleeved g/y

Like I say, I have never seen that guidance written anywhere, heard it plenty of times though and it is the convention I tend to use.

 

[davesparks]

I had a thing from the niceic around the time of harmonisation it was a big A4 leaflet about de neutralise black when converting old colours to new. Think several cable manufacturers also produced their own leaflets of de neutral black as well...

It’s even in the brown on site guide I think

Will try to dig it out later

The niceic made up that nonsense but as far as I know it never featured in the regulations.
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The official guidance from the iee and niceic at the time was to not use black as neutral post harmonisation.
It was to use grey sleeved blue.
Black sleeved g/y

Do you have any evidence of the iee supporting this?

The convention was to use red for live, yellow for another live or earth and blue for neutral. Red became brown, yellow became black and blue became grey, so to continue the same convention Black is used for live or earth and grey for neutral.
This can keep joints between the two neater/easier as the cores should naturally line up if you have the cable the right way round.

 

[Dustydazzler]

The niceic made up that nonsense but as far as I know it never featured in the regulations.
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Do you have any evidence of the iee supporting this?

The convention was to use red for live, yellow for another live or earth and blue for neutral. Red became brown, yellow became black and blue became grey, so to continue the same convention Black is used for live or earth and grey for neutral.
This can keep joints between the two neater/easier as the cores should naturally line up if you have the cable the right way round.

Yes black becomes a live or earth

The grey became the neutral

If adding new cable to an old installation

That was the official recommendation iirc
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Will try to dig out my old brown on site guide later and take a picture