Manufacturer recommends 32amp breaker for 2kw appliance?

[stokielee]

Got to a customers house today after a brief discussion recently that they have brought a 2kw hob and it needs fittings. I went through the manufacturer’s instructions and they recommend it to be hard wired and that it is to be put on a 32amp breaker, obviously a 2kw appliance will pull around 8amps if my maths is correct so I am wondering am I missing something here? The hard wired part isn’t a problem, it’s more the size of breaker they recommend. There was 2x line and 2x neutral conductors too crimped together (this is where I first thought things weren’t what I am used to)

 

[James]

Are you sure it’s only 2kw in total?

 

[littlespark]

Can we have the model number of the appliance?

A lot of these are marketed for other countries as well as UK, where they have differing electrical supplies.
The MI can be misleading at times when things are written for one country, then badly translated.

 

[davesparks]

Is this a single ring hob, or otherwise smaller than usual appliance?

If it is a normal sized hob with 4(or more) rings then it's more likely the error is in the 2kW rating and not in the requirement for a 32A supply.

 

[stokielee]

Are you sure it’s only 2kw in total?

Yes 100% max output is 2kw

 

[Dartlec]

Sounds like this was designed for a European setup, where it would have been provided with a different cable that split maybe 1/2 the rings onto each of the L and N.

In which case 2kW for half of the rings sounds more plausible. Or possibly someone has misunderstood our regs about any fixed load with >2kW needing it's only circuit.

There certainly are hobs that are limited in output power by their control circuitry to never exceed a maximum power, but they usually come with a plug attached.

Unfortunately, Manufacturers Instructions do have weight in the regs, even when they are badly written or just plain wrong.

I'd probably consider the 32A requirement to be more binding than the stated power output in this case. What is there already? If it's replacing an existing hob then what is there is probably suitable.

 

[timhoward]

Whatever it says (which is likely wrong) I'd never fit less than 6 sq mm cable for a hob supply anyway as who knows what someone will want in the future. So it might be simplest to go belt and braces and feed from 32A breaker and at least 6 sq mm cable.

 

[mainline]

Got to a customers house today after a brief discussion recently that they have brought a 2kw hob and it needs fittings. I went through the manufacturer’s instructions and they recommend it to be hard wired and that it is to be put on a 32amp breaker, obviously a 2kw appliance will pull around 8amps if my maths is correct so I am wondering am I missing something here? The hard wired part isn’t a problem, it’s more the size of breaker they recommend. There was 2x line and 2x neutral conductors too crimped together (this is where I first thought things weren’t what I am used to)

32 amp breaker will be fine as the load is going to be no more than 2kw.

 

[stokielee]

Can we have the model number of the appliance?

A lot of these are marketed for other countries as well as UK, where they have differing electrical supplies.
The MI can be misleading at times when things are written for one country, then badly translated.

I am just waiting on confirmation from the customer that they brought the hob that they originally sent me for approval

Sounds like this was designed for a European setup, where it would have been provided with a different cable that split maybe 1/2 the rings onto each of the L and N.

In which case 2kW for half of the rings sounds more plausible. Or possibly someone has misunderstood our regs about any fixed load with >2kW needing it's only circuit.

There certainly are hobs that are limited in output power by their control circuitry to never exceed a maximum power, but they usually come with a plug attached.

Unfortunately, Manufacturers Instructions do have weight in the regs, even when they are badly written or just plain wrong.

I'd probably consider the 32A requirement to be more binding than the stated power output in this case. What is there already? If it's replacing an existing hob then what is there is probably suitable.

There was nothing there, I have managed to feed a 6mm cable in on a 32amp breaker as recommended

Whatever it says (which is likely wrong) I'd never fit less than 6 sq mm cable for a hob supply anyway as who knows what someone will want in the future. So it might be simplest to go belt and braces and feed from 32A breaker and at least 6 sq mm cable.

That’s what I have done in the end, it was just the 5 core and the 2kw that has thrown me out a little bit

32 amp breaker will be fine as the load is going to be no more than 2kw.

Of course, a fixed appliance should never pull more then it’s max load but why recommend a 32amp breaker for 2kw in the first place

 

[mainline]

Of course, a fixed appliance should never pull more then it’s max load but why recommend a 32amp breaker for 2kw in the first place

I can only guess at the reasoning as to why, maybe they do different power ratings but stick to the same cable/mcb.

 

[brianmoooore]

The 5 core flex indicates that this was designed to be connected to a 3 phase supply, but has been modified for the UK market. It's most likely 2kW per phase, so 4kW in total.
The doubled up 5 core flex is a better idea than the usual of brass links and then trying to fit 4mm2 cable to terminals designed for 1.5mm2.

 

[stokielee]

as

The 5 core flex indicates that this was designed to be connected to a 3 phase supply, but has been modified for the UK market. It's most likely 2kW per phase, so 4kW in total.
The doubled up 5 core flex is a better idea than the usual of brass links and then trying to fit 4mm2 cable to terminals designed for 1.5mm2.

Thank you, it’s starting to make sense now

 

[Lucien Nunes]

I agree that the 2kW is probably wrong, it simply isn't enough power for a normal, full-spec hob, Nor would 2kW require the two pairs of L&N terminals. As @brianmoooore explains, many European 3-phase domestic systems use two phases for the hob, typically limited to 16A each. But I don't think they would normally quote power per phase, so it's anybody's guess where the supposed 2kW rating came from.

 

[brianmoooore]

@stokielee You posted a pic of the English instructions. Could you post a pic of the French ones?

 

[littlespark]

@stokielee You posted a pic of the English instructions. Could you post a pic of the French ones?

Or the make and model of the appliance.

 

[stokielee]

Right, things make even more sense today, the customer never brought the original hob that they sent me, they’ve got a completely different one and never told me.
I have attached photos of before and after.
Then, looking further into the operating instructions, each hob is 1200-2000watt so that explains the bigger cable/MCB now.
Sorry to waste your times, I shouldn’t of listened to the customer and double checked the instructions when the actual appliance arrived, I’ll put it down as a lesson learnt.
Thank you for all your comments and help.

 

[James]

The first picture says it has a 13A plug.
sureley it is limiting its current draw to less than 3kw in total.

 

[stokielee]

The first picture says it has a 13A plug.
sureley it is limiting its current draw to less than 3kw in total.

The 13amp plug is what the customer originally sent me for approval then without telling me they have brought a different hob. Then I saw 2000watt on the box and assumed it was the original hob and required 8amps or there about.

 

[brianmoooore]

I'd still like to see the French instructions for the 5 core wire hob.

 

[plugsandsparks]

The Clind 60 is rated at 6400KW, according to B&Q

 

[littlespark]

The Clind 60 is rated at 6400KW, according to B&Q

6400 kW!!!

Extra “k” there or missing a “.”?

 

[mainline]

I wouldn’t like to be the one having to gland that bad boy in

 

[plugsandsparks]

6400 kW!!!

Extra “k” there or missing a “.”?

xtra k, lol although that would be a cracking Hob if you could get one that big.....

 

[mainline]

xtra k, lol although that would be a cracking Hob if you could get one that big.....

You can, it's called the sun

 

[stokielee]

I'd still like to see the French instructions for the 5 core wire hob.

I’ll take a photo when I am next there this week

 

[Nine bars of Chocolate]

I can relate to the confusion relating to manufacturers instructions.

We took delivery of a new fan oven last week (Smeg). It's under 3000W. Curry's insist that it must be connected to an FCU. Upon unpacking, theres a flex attached without a plug, but also a label on the flex instructing the installer to fit a plug fused at 13A!

The thing is, in our setup, if someone did that along with our new hob, they'd overload the 2 ganger thats there at the moment.

I'm going FCU route anyway, as I reckon it would be hard to argue a correctly fitted FCU is somehow inferior to a plug?

 

[John-SJW]

Many manufacturers do not rewrite the instruction for the UK market. For example AEG make an integrated fridge that consumes about 1/3 amp. They say it must have a 16A supply. That is totally inappropriate for British ring final circuits. So it must be ignored.

It comes with a 13A plug with a 13A fuse inside for an appliance drawing around 1/3 amp. The cable looks heavy enough to take 16A. The cable looks like it is to be protected by only a 16A MCB at the CU on a radial circuit with a non-fused Euro plug. It look like the 13A fuse does not protect the appliance.

A 3A or 6A fuse will protect this fridge adequately. It does not have to be on 16A supply or a hefty cable in the UK. I assume that it cannot be fitted on a 20A radial as the cable is not man enough to take 20A.

 

[Vortigern]

Induction hobs are always large draw. The 1200 and 2000 refer to each ring so 2x 1200 and 2 x 2000 which brings us up to 6.4. kw = 28a = 10 + 6 =16a. I would check it is actually CE marked.

 

[mainline]

Many manufacturers do not rewrite the instruction for the UK market. For example AEG make an integrated fridge that consumes about 1/3 amp. They say it must have a 16A supply. That is totally inappropriate for British ring final circuits. So it must be ignored.

It comes with a 13A plug with a 13A fuse inside for an appliance drawing around 1/3 amp. The cable looks heavy enough to take 16A. The cable looks like it is to be protected by only a 16A MCB at the CU on a radial circuit with a non-fused Euro plug. It look like the 13A fuse does not protect the appliance.

A 3A or 6A fuse will protect this fridge adequately. It does not have to be on 16A supply or a hefty cable in the UK. I assume that it cannot be fitted on a 20A radial as the cable is not man enough to take 20A.

The reason for the larger fuse is the starting surge current.
The fuse is to protect the cable.

 

[davesparks]

I would check it is actually CE marked.

These post-brexit days it should be a UKCA mark for anything in the UK

 

[brianmoooore]

These post-brexit days it should be a UKCA mark for anything in the UK

Can you buy them on sticky back rolls as well?

 

[littlespark]

These post-brexit days it should be a UKCA mark for anything in the UK

Unusable Krap from China Anyway?

 

[John-SJW]

I'm going FCU route anyway, as I reckon it would be hard to argue a correctly fitted FCU is somehow inferior to a plug?

FCU is better than a plug for sure. But when on for sustained periods the 13A fuse, or connections, can overheat. A small box with a 13A MCB (or 16A - yes you can have a 16A MCB off a ring) and 20A DP switch off the ring would be better for sure. They could be in an adjacent cupboard.

An extreme example.

MCB can be in a box like this. About £3-4