Consumer Unit Faults

[rob121]

Evening all,
Had to do a consumer unit change today. Advised customer to have a pir done before hand to see what condition the system was in but he didnt want to pay the extra money. Anyway changed the unit today, replaced with dual rcd board. One rcd wouldnt stay on so tracked it down to being the downstairs ring. Disconnected for now so will have to look into it further. The problem is there is so many faults with the system and the customer doesnt want to spend too much money sorting them out before christmas. The faults ive found so far are:
1)Alarm system wired directly into socket (0.5mm into 32A ring!)
2)Garage wired directly into socket (1mm 3 core)
3)All cpc's cut off at every lighting point, with at 6 lights which are class 1
4)Downlights not IP rated in bathrooms
5)Connector strips used in ceiling to connect downlights (in far enough that cant access blocks to replace)
6)Conservatory sockets wired in 0.75mm flex connected to ring main, not even at a socket so I cant disconnect.

I appreciate some of the work is not too much agro to sort, I most likely will just go mad with some FCUs on the overloaded cable, but its other bits such as replacing lights and the other faults which im yet to discover that im wondering about.
Feel bad for them as theyre an elderly couple and have just recently had a lot of the work done, including paying £150 each for the class 1 lights!
Lots of minor faults which I sorted as I went. Still only inspected half the house. Still got the gararge, sheds, kitchen etc to do. So my question is, seen as the customer doesnt want to pay me to sort these issues out, is writing a certificate and just listing these problems acceptable, perhaps along with a danger notification, or do I need to keep it isolated to until its sorted?

Thanks for you help


Rob

 

[Octopus]

Oer. not a nice situation to be in.

If the client doesn't want to pay for issues to be sorted then your certificate will have a rather lengthy "notes" page added.

Re the class 1 fittings did the sparky leave a cert?

Most clients don't understand the risks is "its been OK for 30 years"

 

[telectrix]

you can't really leave him with a RFC disconnected, but you can disconnect the more serious defects . if you can, reconnect the cpc's at the fancy lights but leave the installation as safe as possible. perhaps they will be prepared to spend a bit in the new year.

 

[JamesBrownLive]

Have a read of this...

View attachment BPG1v2_web.pdf

 

[ackbarthestar]

Advised customer to have a pir done before hand to see what condition the system was in but he didnt want to pay the extra money.

If you had done the PIR first, then you could have advised the client that all the DIY done so far needs to be replaced. RCDs will provide, or should I say, cover a multitude of sins and even provide a certain amount of basic protection (direct contact) for the class I light fittings, but that can't be guaranteed. (see 531.2.5)

All I can say is hope you can sort it out and not loose too much money.

 

[rob121]

If you had of done the PIR first, then you could advised the client that all the DIY done so far needs to be replaced. RCDs will provide, or should I say, cover a multitude of sins and even provide a certain amount of basic protection (direct contact) for the class I light fittings.

All I say is hope you can sort it out and not loose too much money.

This was explained to the customer but at the time he said to go ahead ith the works and that any issues he would pay extra to have rectified. Im confident he will pay for the additional works but hes asked me to leave them for now and sort in the new year. Only reason I was replacing was due to his boiler breaking down and melting all the central heating cables, and the existing board didnt meet regs. So he was in more of a hurry to get the heating up and running.

Teletrix, can I issue a certificate at the moment then, as long as I note the issues?

 

[ackbarthestar]

So he was in more of a hurry to get the heating up and running.

As a paying Gas customer I have been in this situation, all I could think off is just get the job done so i can warm my feet up and have a bath.

If he is prepared to pay for the extras then, I suppose that's fair enough.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

A bit of a dilema.
He's already agreed in principal for you to do the work.
If you issue a Certificate leaving faults, will he get you back to do the work?

 

[rob121]

I agree, just had a read throught the best practise guide. as far as I understand it, seem as all the lighs arent in an area where theres a conductive floor, access to extraneous parts etc then a labels should suffice. Doesnt mention Ip rated lights though, but going by the same principle as long as I mention it in certificate I would imagine it will be ok till the new year. I will ask the customer to sign a disclaimer listing all faults and that hes been made aware and takes responsibility (too many "ands" I know! lol).

Any more opinions welcome

Cheers for the help

Rob

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I don't know that a disclaimer is worth the paper it's written on to be honest.
The customer is not skilled, so he won't considered as competent enough to take responsibility.

 

[spark 68]

Hi Mate,

I will ask the customer to sign a disclaimer listing all faults and that hes been made aware and takes responsibility

As far as Iam aware that won't do, the client is not a competant person and cannot make this decision, you are, and if the worst should happen it will be you in the brown stuff!

I don't think you can issue an EIC with faults on either (non compliances yes), these must be made safe/compliant, (or disconnected, and missed off the EIC until rectified and re-connected) as others have said "between a rock and a hard place".

Would it not be better to defer issuing the paper work until it is all sorted ? or even maybe classed as an unplanned/emergency replacement CU ? as the ESC make provision for this eventuality

 

[Octopus]

Or ring your scheme and see what they recommend.

 

[JamesBrownLive]

I agree, just had a read throught the best practise guide. as far as I understand it, seem as all the lighs arent in an area where theres a conductive floor, access to extraneous parts etc then a labels should suffice. Doesnt mention Ip rated lights though, but going by the same principle as long as I mention it in certificate I would imagine it will be ok till the new year. I will ask the customer to sign a disclaimer listing all faults and that hes been made aware and takes responsibility (too many "ands" I know! lol).

Any more opinions welcome

Cheers for the help

Rob

I think you are wrong there, as labels are only applicable if the installation passes the risk assessment. If, as you say, there are 6 class 1 lights without CPCs, then they would fail test 1 of that risk assessment i.e. To establish whether or not equipment is earthed. The resultant measure being for you to decline to do the CU change. I realise that this does not help as you have done the change already :-(
It also mentions on page 6 that a disclaimer does not absolve the installer from responsibility.

 

[Robinson]

I would check out Best Practice Guide No1 issue 2 . " Replacing a consumer unit in domestic premises, where lighting circuits have no protective conductor".

ANd Guide No6.

No1 is very helpful. Had same issue recent.

You can issue cert but you will have to meet certain requirements and procedures..Well worth the read IMO

Best practice guides : Electrical Safety Council

 

[ezzzekiel]

mostly minor faults easy enough to correct why not agree a price do the work and recieve payment later (could always use small claims court if he later refuses if you think the money is worth chasing)

and take it as a lesson learnt for future.

 

[rob121]

cheers guys, on page 8 (i think) of best practise guide, for replacing unit when lights have no cpc, on the action table in "class 1 in other areas", it mentions putting label on unit. Metallic lights are in bedrooms and hallway. Point taken on the disclaimer though, just read the bpg again and noticed the disclaimer not being valid.

Will have a good chat with him tomorrow, explaining this. Pain in the arse but there we go.

Any thoughts on the lights not being IP rated?


Thanks again lads,
Rob

 

[Robinson]

I mean i know they not got much dosh but you can get IP rated bath spots for £10 each these days . TLC have some stock clearance stuff on at mo. also Ebay for odd sale of some cheaper bits. plenty of places doing em.

Mind you you got the old eyeball spots in there? that can be a pain if the old huge ones....means new holes maybe.

I recent had same issue, managed to convince client to change all fittings to plastic inc switches and then tested put sticker on board.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Any thoughts on the lights not being IP rated?

How high is the ceiling, if it's more than 2.25m, then it's outside of the zones, and unless there's a shower, and there's a light over it, then the normal IP ratings apply.

 

[rob121]

Will have to check tomorrow what size the holes are. Will ring NIC tomorrow and see what they suggest. End of the day hes said he will pay for any work that needs to be done to rectify faults at the beginning of the job so as long as I dont go mad he should be okay (he will have to be).
Another pain ive got is there was a 2.5mm radial connected to a 15A fuse in his unit. Could I find where it went, could I b******s lol. Ive put the mcb in the unit for it but not connected it yet. Hopefully he will notice if its something still in use. He did tell me the bloke who owned the house before him was a builder and had plastered live cables into the wall.....now he tells me lol.

 

[rob121]

How high is the ceiling, if it's more than 2.25m, then it's outside of the zones, and unless there's a shower, and there's a light over it, then the normal IP ratings apply.

No its not high enough, checked that earlier. Also hes got a bath with a flexible shower head on it. Should of become a plumber .......