Advice on install where SY flex is used as part of fixed wiring

[vxwestie]

Bit of advice required guys.
i have to do some refurb work on a listed building where previous works have been required to be in MICC
this works will require a completion cert when finished.

However, recently an approved contractor has carried out work on part of the installation where a fault has occurred on a section of lighting MICC. The sparks has isolation a section of the supply currently in 1.5mm MICC and taken another supply from a light in 1mm 3 core SY flex, in all about a 30ft length, clipped to the stones wall with micc cleats and terminated into the light fittings.
Would you allow this to remain in an installation you sign off?
The fact that fire proof pyro has been replaced with PVC flex is bad enough, but SY has half the current carrying capacity and twice the voltdrop of the pyro. Although still within peramiters acceptable, surely altering the current spec of the circuit is unsatisfactory.

Im also sure there's something in the regs about not using flexible cable for fixed wiring, but will have to check.

your views please gentlemen ....

(All the muppet had to do was check the gland, which is where I'm confident the fault it...)

 

[Richard Burns]

The state of the electrical installation is not your worry, you are doing your work and it is your work that needs to comply with wiring and building regulations.
The conditions for the listed building will mean that you need to do the work in accordance with those requirements but your are not obligated to correct something that has been previously allowed.

It would be a good idea to restore that section but it would not be up to you to state it was required, that would be for the owners to ask you to correct that.

Flexible cable can be used for fixed wiring so long as it is suitable for the task.

 

[vxwestie]

If I'm carrying out major refurbishment works and alterations along with issuing a completion cert. surely the state of the electrical installation is exactly my worry...
Since the electrical installation was done in the early 90's the requirement for micc cable has always stood, so I can't understand how replacing it with PVC flex can be satisfactory.
The regs do say flexible cable can be used for fixed wiring providing it is fit for purpose. Niceic say that it is up to me to determine its suitability, and the Eca guidance is that extreme caution should be given to the use of SY and yy cables for fixed wiring. The manufactures guidance is that SY cable is for industrial and motor use...
Think the battle is about to begin as the customer has paid for the works done by another contractor and I'm about to claim its not suitable ....

 

[Darkwood]

Firstly ensure the SY has its braiding earthed but is not using the braiding as the earth, SY is originally designed for a screened control wire although it can with careful thought and proper install methods be used for other uses, the building been listed as you say would have meant this should not have been installed as such but thats not your worry .. only as a verbal comment.

Why is it in SY? If the braiding is supposedly trying to give mechanical protection then this is not really suitable as its not an armour its just a screen so this is where you can comment as with the earthing of the braiding issue if it hasn't been.

This is truely typical nowadays of the dummed down education system where MICC termination is no longer part of the training ...hence you get wannabe sparkies cutting corners making a poor install just avoid having to deal with the MICC.

It must look so unsightly and obviously its been self certed as it would never have passed if it was seen the MICC repair had been maid with some SY, i personally would pass the original cert to the powers that be who maintain the historical integrity of the listed building and let them chase this rogue sparkie up.

 

[vxwestie]

Spoke to a couple cable manufacturers today, both said they wouldn't recommend the use of this cable on this instance, unless it could be proven there was no other alternative AND that the correct calculations had been done.... Both said SY is cable control cable designed for motor and industrial use.

Gotta agree. I don't think the sparks knew the first thing about micc, but why on earth he chose SY over pyro or FP, I've no idea.... Unfortunately not a young upstart though, an Approved Contractor with the big scheme and supposedly 20+ yrs experience...


Have passed on the info to the building trustees and recommended it be replaced and put right..