Basic question on Phase 3 / Phase 1

[Mike1985]

Hi forum,

I have what I am sure is a very basic question and would be very greatful if someone could point me in the right direction. I have next to no electrical knowledge so can assure if any re-wiring is involved I will be taking the appliance to an electrican.

I have just received a Eurolite - DPX-610 Dimmer pack that we are going to use to dim 4 500W theatre lights. The dimmer pack can work on either Phase 1 or Phase 3 supply however it appears to have arrived with a 5 pin red power leade (I assume this is for a phase 3 power outlet?).

I'm guessing I either need to purchase some sort of adapter to plug the 5 pin end into or take it in to be rewired with a phase 1 power lead? Any confirmation of the best approach would be much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[westward10]

Moved from DIY.

 

[Julie.]

The plug needs to be replaced with a suitable single phase one (3 pins).

All three lines (brown, black, grey) need to be connected to line, the neutral (blue) to neutral, and earth/cpc to cpc.

The choice of plug is not straightforward as it is too high a current for a standard uk plug due to the switching - in theory it is below the 13A plug limit, in practice this is not a good choice.

You will need to get an electrician to wire this, and install a suitable socket/supply.

The wiring instructions are in the manual.

 

[Mike1985]

The plug needs to be replaced with a suitable single phase one (3 pins).

All three lines (brown, black, grey) need to be connected to line, the neutral (blue) to neutral, and earth/cpc to cpc.

The choice of plug is not straightforward as it is too high a current for a standard uk plug due to the switching - in theory it is below the 13A plug limit, in practice this is not a good choice.

You will need to get an electrician to wire this, and install a suitable socket/supply.

The wiring instructions are in the manual.

Thanks so much for the reply Julie. Much appreciated. I'll get an electrician to have a look at rewiring it for me. Just wanted to check first that there was not some sort of adapter that could be used.

 

[pc1966]

Thanks so much for the reply Julie. Much appreciated. I'll get an electrician to have a look at rewiring it for me. Just wanted to check first that there was not some sort of adapter that could be used.

It is an unusual thing to do (connect the 3P to 1P directly) so I doubt there is a market for adaptors like that off-the-shelf.

If you absolutely wanted to keep it with the original lead in case of it being used on 3P in the future you could get a special adaptor lead made up with a 3-pin blue "commando" style plug at one end and a red 5-pin socket at the other, wired as above.

But remember to have it labelled as to is purpose!

 

[pc1966]

As mentioned by Julie above, the normal 13A plugs are a bit of a stretch for this but the round blue ones are 16A (or 32A, etc) so better suited.

 

[Mike1985]

Thanks guys.

 

[DJAndy]

Was this bought used? These used to ship without cable but it's been a couple of years since I've seen one.

The wiring code in the manuals of the units I've installed referred to the terminals inside the case - the cable & OPCD size used isn't mentioned as it depends on the version you have, how it is going to be loaded, and the supply type.

I've seen units on single phase connected with 3Core 10mm on a 63A MCB to use the full capacity of the socket version (usually with a proteus 5 way terminal block inside the case), but in scenarios where a hard wired version install was 6x 500W lights that's serious overkill and 3 core 1.5mm from a 16A MCB was more than adequate.

3 phase is much easier if you have it available, 2.5mm 5 core on a 20A MCB and you're done. 6mm if you have the 20A per channel version.

 

[Lucien Nunes]

Note: 'single-phase' and '3-phase' not 'phase 1' and 'phase 3'

For this specific application, you can make an adaptor from 3-pin single-phase plug to 5-pin 3-phase socket. In many situations that won't work, but for theatre lighting it's usually fine because the equipment doesn't need three phases, it just needs all three line wires powered. There are limitations, you can only use 1/3 of the theoretical power capacity of the 3-phase connection because the neutral wire from dimmer to 3-phase plug is equal in size only to one line, not all three. For single-phase it would need to be three times larger. The single-phase plug of the adaptor must not be of a higher current rating than the 3-phase socket, for this reason. But specifically for your four 500W lights, it will be fine.

What kind of single-phase socket are you wanting to plug it into? Current-wise, again you are OK on 13A domestic plug with the four 500W lights. But the earth-leakage of the dimmer pack itself might be too high to use safely on a 13A plug, in which case a blue 16A plug might be needed. Anybody got a leakage current figure?

 

[Mike1985]

Was this bought used? These used to ship without cable but it's been a couple of years since I've seen one.

The wiring code in the manuals of the units I've installed referred to the terminals inside the case - the cable & OPCD size used isn't mentioned as it depends on the version you have, how it is going to be loaded, and the supply type.

I've seen units on single phase connected with 3Core 10mm on a 63A MCB to use the full capacity of the socket version (usually with a proteus 5 way terminal block inside the case), but in scenarios where a hard wired version install was 6x 500W lights that's serious overkill and 3 core 1.5mm from a 16A MCB was more than adequate.

3 phase is much easier if you have it available, 2.5mm 5 core on a 20A MCB and you're done. 6mm if you have the 20A per channel version.

Thanks for the reply Andy. Sorry for late response, I hadn't received the email alerts from the last 2 replys.

Yes, this was bought 2nd hand after some providing advice on lighting recommended it for the 4 theatre lights. I understand the dimmer has 6 channels but was under the impression power wise that with only 4 500w lights (not 6) connected this would be okay.

I've reached out to a bunch of electrical businesses locally but not had any luck so far. Not all our venues have 3 phase power which is why we went for this modle as it is supposed to be able to work from a domestic plug. The problem is its arrived with the 3 phase power cable installed.

 

[Mike1985]

Note: 'single-phase' and '3-phase' not 'phase 1' and 'phase 3'

For this specific application, you can make an adaptor from 3-pin single-phase plug to 5-pin 3-phase socket. In many situations that won't work, but for theatre lighting it's usually fine because the equipment doesn't need three phases, it just needs all three line wires powered. There are limitations, you can only use 1/3 of the theoretical power capacity of the 3-phase connection because the neutral wire from dimmer to 3-phase plug is equal in size only to one line, not all three. For single-phase it would need to be three times larger. The single-phase plug of the adaptor must not be of a higher current rating than the 3-phase socket, for this reason. But specifically for your four 500W lights, it will be fine.

What kind of single-phase socket are you wanting to plug it into? Current-wise, again you are OK on 13A domestic plug with the four 500W lights. But the earth-leakage of the dimmer pack itself might be too high to use safely on a 13A plug, in which case a blue 16A plug might be needed. Anybody got a leakage current figure?

Thank you for the reply Lucian.

I've reached out to a bunch of electricians locally and some appliance repair places but no one has responded as of yet saying they can re-wire for us.

To answer your question, we purchased this dimmer as a lot of our venues do not have 3-phase sockets so we need a domestic style socket.

I'd been going with the idea of re-wiring being the solution which is what I emailed local electricians asking for however the solution you suggest of an adapter would be another great solution. Perhaps its something I could have sent to me rather than having to find someone to actually take the whole kit to.

If anyone has any suggestions of businesses that could create such an adapter for us it would be much appreciated.

Thanks for everyones advice.

 

[marcuswareham]

What sizes is the red connector, it should say an amp rating on the side (16A, 32A, 63A or 125A)

You can buy ready made adaptors like this:

16A 230v Plug to 16A 415v Socket

16A to16A Socket 415V

www.essentialsupplies.co.uk

Changing the connector on the dimmer pack for one suitable for your situation should be easy enough, Perhaps if you speak nicly to an events equipment rental company they will have someone in-house who would do it for some beer money, where abouts are you located

 

[marcuswareham]

You can also get smaller DMX dimmers such like:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/qtx-DP4-4-...Vaw2caf86m82WFcZiQQCt61j0&cshid=1617874771938

The power input is a standard IEC so a 13A "kettle lead" can power it straight from a domestic outlet, out the box it is fused at 2.5A (575w) per channel so would be ok for 4x 500w lights

 

[Rockingit]

PLEASE READ I wouldn't normally do this, but my skilled colleagues on here are wrong in this instance....

I am a theatre/show/events electrician, hence how I know..... there's an internal 'link' which needs to be made inside the unit. (Like the one's you find internally on some cookers). It's a ten minute job and as you're in Fife I'd suggest someone like Blacklight HOME - Black Light - https://black-light.com/ just over the bridge would be the people to do it for you. Anything else and you run the risk of trouble. Feel free to DM me if you want.