Differnet makes of CU and MCB

[Amp David]

Is it just me who doesn't really see theis as an issue, as long as they fit right?

 

[Geordie Spark]

Hi and Welcome

 

[Guest55]

most budget brands of CU and accessories will be made in the same chinese factory anyway.
i wouldnt lose any sleep over it

 

[Amp David]

I tend not to TBH. End of the day, people go on about warranties etc, but can't see the fact that a certain MCB has a different name on it will make it operate any differently

 

[Jimmyb]

i once was told its to do with heat points on the mcb, one brand could have most of it heat on the left and the other the right so basically if you mix and match you could end up with the different brands having there hottest bit touching.

Not that i believe but i always install hager and if the old board is different hager goes in

 

[markc123]

Whilst we're on this subject.....Im currently trying to replace a MCB.....a 20amp Kroenke MCB.....I have never ever seen this make before and nothing comes on google about it. My wholesalers are really really struggling to replace it because the connections are completley out compared to other breakers, so can't put any MCB in & also it's in a line of like 10breaker's...all this same dodgey make, inside a merlingerin lucypillar board....can tell they're not originals, dinrails have been fixed that aren't standard. New owner of the small caravan park doesn't have a clue where they've come from, nor do i. He also doesn't want to replace all the breakers because the one that doesn't work properly isn't in use at the moment as the caravan plot is empty. In the future i suppose he'll just have to dig deep into his pockets because i have no idea about this MCB....anyone else heard of them? Don't think its british standard because although the front is faded i can't see icn / ics values on the front. Nightmareeeeeeeeeee!

 

[MarkieSparkie]

Is it just me who doesn't really see theis as an issue, as long as they fit right?

The issue with fitting MCBs/RCBOs/RCDs from one or multiple manufactures in a different manufacturers enclosure is that the original manufacturers BS EN 60439-3:1991+C:2009 type testing becomes null and void, because they quite reasonably only type test with their own protective devices. It then becomes the electrician's responsibility to ensure the assembly meets the requirements of the standard, this certification can only be gained via destructive type testing at a proof laboratory. I believe there is still a High Court case pending on this very issue, where an electrical contractor is being sued for £M in damages by insurance companies and others, resulting from an electrical fire at the distribution board.

 

[Deleted member 9648]

The issue with fitting MCBs/RCBOs/RCDs from one or multiple manufactures in a different manufacturers enclosure is that the original manufacturers BS EN 60439-3:1991+C:2009 type testing becomes null and void, because they quite reasonably only type test with their own protective devices. It then becomes the electrician's responsibility to ensure the assembly meets the requirements of the standard, this certification can only be gained via destructive type testing at a proof laboratory. I believe there is still a High Court case pending on this very issue, where an electrical contractor is being sued for £M in damages by insurance companies and others, resulting from an electrical fire at the distribution board.

None of the above surprises me.......but fitting a different make MCB into a CU on it's own will not cause an electrical fire. I would suggest that a competant electrician will be able to ensure a non-standard MCB of the same BS type can be fitted to a CU safely.
IMO the CU's with the drop out busbar strips are far more likely to cause a fire with the correct mcb's fitted(very easy to miss the clamp) than a fixed busbar board with a non manufacturer mcb.... which is much harder to get wrong.

 

[spycatcheron]

yeah, i think so, most budget brands of CU and accessories will be made in the same chinese factory anyway.so bad.

 

[Amp David]

Thanks for all the input, I will look forward to a good nights sleep now tonight, as this has been bugging me for ages now.

 

[Engineer54]

The issue with fitting MCBs/RCBOs/RCDs from one or multiple manufactures in a different manufacturers enclosure is that the original manufacturers BS EN 60439-3:1991+C:2009 type testing becomes null and void, because they quite reasonably only type test with their own protective devices. It then becomes the electrician's responsibility to ensure the assembly meets the requirements of the standard, this certification can only be gained via destructive type testing at a proof laboratory. I believe there is still a High Court case pending on this very issue, where an electrical contractor is being sued for £M in damages by insurance companies and others, resulting from an electrical fire at the distribution board.

I'd like to see the proof the so-called expert witness puts up to prove an MCB that was manufactured in the same factory, on the same machine but with a different company logo printed on it, was the cause of whatever damage this insurance company claims.

In essence, this makes the whole business of type testing MCB'S as a nonsense!! Different if someone has shoehorned in a totally different MCB casing with a bus bar connection that don't line-up etc!! ...lol!!!

 

[Octopus]

This question was asked at Elex today and answered by a panel consisting of 1 x Elecsa, 1 x Napit and 1 x NICEIC gentlemen. They said that the responsibility to ensure compatibility was down to you to check with the manufacturers - and if they won't say "yes ok" then its down to you!!!!!!!!!

 

[Engineer54]

This question was asked at Elex today and answered by a panel consisting of 1 x Elecsa, 1 x Napit and 1 x NICEIC gentlemen. They said that the responsibility to ensure compatibility was down to you to check with the manufacturers - and if they won't say "yes ok" then its down to you!!!!!!!!!

Did you really expect anything else from these people?? That's the typical non-committal type statement you will always get from bodies such as these!! In other words, ...Pass the Buck!!

 

[MarkieSparkie]

I'd like to see the proof the so-called expert witness puts up to prove an MCB that was manufactured in the same factory, on the same machine but with a different company logo printed on it, was the cause of whatever damage this insurance company claims.

In essence, this makes the whole business of type testing MCB'S as a nonsense!! Different if someone has shoehorned in a totally different MCB casing with a bus bar connection that don't line-up etc!! ...lol!!!

As I understand it the case won't hinge on that issue at all. The prosecution will only have to establish that type testing for the assembly wasn't obtained by the electrical contractor who did the work and they will have established reasonable doubt and lack of credibility of the contractor and their staff.

 

[Engineer54]

As I understand it the case won't hinge on that issue at all. The prosecution will only have to establish that type testing for the assembly wasn't obtained by the electrical contractor who did the work and they will have established reasonable doubt and lack of credibility of the contractor and their staff.

Then the law remains an --- as they say!!! And makes a mockery of the MCB type testing, if it means nothing without a specific enclosure!!

EDIT...
I'd still say they would have to have more of a case than that, if the criteria is the same as i outlined in my post above, as the actual MCB's will be EXACTLY the same as those for the original enclosure...

 

[Rockingit]

OK, then...now begs the question when is a DB not a DB? If I take an adaptable box with a DIN rail, and a nice cover (Lewden do some lovely ones)....insert 4 x MK MCB's, an RCD and an Isolator switch.....absolutely nothing wrong with that as far as I can see..... do I have an MK board or a Rockingit board???

FFS - it's a plastic moulding that's being argued over, surely??

 

[richy3333]

OK, then...now begs the question when is a DB not a DB? If I take an adaptable box with a DIN rail, and a nice cover (Lewden do some lovely ones)....insert 4 x MK MCB's, an RCD and an Isolator switch.....absolutely nothing wrong with that as far as I can see..... do I have an MK board or a Rockingit board???

FFS - it's a plastic moulding that's being argued over, surely??

In your example the breakers are all the same make. I think it is mixing the makes that causes the contention? Hager instructions say that only products from their catalogue should be installed.

 

[Rockingit]

In your example the breakers are all the same make. I think it is mixing the makes that causes the contention? Hager instructions say that only products from their catalogue should be installed.

OK then, throw in a couple of Hager MCB's into my box above, NOW who's is it???

 

[Rockingit]

My point here is what exactly is being type tested? All a CU is, is a plastic box pre-filled with things you order off the shelf. So, if I take my lewden box and fill it as per a conventional split board with whatever old leftovers I have in the back of the van, and it subsequently goes wrong and catches fire, am I going to point the finger at Lewden or am I going to point it at whichever MCB type it was that caught fire?

 

[MDJ]

Talking of lewden DBs, I likey, cheap and cheerful but plenty of room :42: