Electrical certificate

[Simon New]

Hi all,

I had a conservatory built four years ago and we have now decided to see the house.

I asked the builder if I needed building regs and an electrical certificate for the 4 double sockets and electric Velux windows inside the conservatory.
The builder said we don't as he took a feed from an existing circuit (double socket on the inside wall)
The solicitors on the other hand are saying we needed one.

what are your thoughts?

Also, the solicitors are saying we needed building regs as the conservatory does not accord with point 5. The area of the roof space is not made of more than three-quarters translucent material. There are only 3 windows therein
The roof is a lightweight tile panels.

anyone able to put my mind at ease?

Thanks

 

[davesparks]

As an alteration of one existing circuit the electrical work should have a minor works certificate issued by the contractor who installed it. It doesn't however require notification under Part P of the building regs.

 

[Dustydazzler]

Get the buyer to pay around 50 quid for the cheapest indemnity policy you can find to cover the missing paperwork and jobs a goodone

 

[Simon New]

Get the buyer to pay around 50 quid for the cheapest indemnity policy you can find to cover the missing paperwork and jobs a goodone

Cheers, my solicitor has recommended me paying approx £100 for an indemnity policy.
I'm happy to do that, hopefully our buyers will be okay with it.

 

[Simon New]

As an alteration of one existing circuit the electrical work should have a minor works certificate issued by the contractor who installed it. It doesn't however require notification under Part P of the building regs.

Thanks Dave,
I'm not sure why my builder said it wasn't needed.
Hopefully the indemnity policy will cover that part too. If not I guess I'll need to get it checked.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[DefyG]

You may have needed building regs for the conservatory (build) and the solicitor assumed all within required the same.
I agree with the above that the alterations to the electrical installation do not require notification (Part P), but why not ask the local building control office to clarify in writing to show the solicitor. He may still press for a test certificate and an EICR for that single circuit alteration may be cheaper than an indemnity policy (unless it shows up too many non-compliances).

 

[davesparks]

Thanks Dave,
I'm not sure why my builder said it wasn't needed.
Hopefully the indemnity policy will cover that part too. If not I guess I'll need to get it checked.

Thanks for the replies.

It is usually because builders aren't electricians and don't understand the wiring regulations or don't care about them.

In the future I'd suggest getting an electrician to do your electrical work.

 

[Simon New]

You may have needed building regs for the conservatory (build) and the solicitor assumed all within required the same.
I agree with the above that the alterations to the electrical installation do not require notification (Part P), but why not ask the local building control office to clarify in writing to show the solicitor. He may still press for a test certificate and an EICR for that single circuit alteration may be cheaper than an indemnity policy (unless it shows up too many non-compliancesthanks for the info

You may have needed building regs for the conservatory (build) and the solicitor assumed all within required the same.
I agree with the above that the alterations to the electrical installation do not require notification (Part P), but why not ask the local building control office to clarify in writing to show the solicitor. He may still press for a test certificate and an EICR for that single circuit alteration may be cheaper than an indemnity policy (unless it shows up too many non-compliances).

Thanks for the information.
if they press for the certificate even after paying for an indemnity I'll give the builder a call and ask him to pop back to test.
I somehow doubt he will and I'll probably have the expense of calling someone in to test.

 

[brianmoooore]

It would be extremely optimistic to assume that the builder has the necessary equipment to perform the required tests.

 

[goasis]

It would be extremely optimistic to assume that the builder has the necessary equipment to perform the required tests.

Really?! Plugs a light in... "see, it's working fine"

 

[ferg]

It would be extremely optimistic to assume that the builder has the necessary equipment to perform the required tests.

I started an EICR on some 'Professionally installed' work and after 20 minutes or so gave up and asked who the professional was.
Apparently the Joiner was also a plumber and electrician.
I suppose the definition of professional is someone who is paid for their work so not entirely inaccurate.

 

[Dustydazzler]

When we had a large conservatory built at our old house the company asked if we wanted some sockets and lights in it for a small cash fee. I said yes ( didn't tell them I was a sparks at this point ) and asked who would be doing the 'lectrics. They said they would as its easy enough just to come off a local plug socket to add some extra sockets and lights. I then pressed them on a certificate for the work and they just looked at me with a glazed expression. At which point it was clear the fitters would be doing the 'lectrics so I offered to do my own at no cost to them.

 

[littlespark]

When we had a large conservatory built at our old house the company asked if we wanted some sockets and lights in it for a small cash fee. I said yes ( didn't tell them I was a sparks at this point ) and asked who would be doing the 'lectrics. They said they would as its easy enough just to come off a local plug socket to add some extra sockets and lights. I then pressed them on a certificate for the work and they just looked at me with a glazed expression. At which point it was clear the fitters would be doing the 'lectrics so I offered to do my own at no cost to them.

Does “come off a local plug socket” mean a fused spur…. Or off a plug top… if the latter, then a PAT test might be more appropriate.

 

[Midwest]

Cheers, my solicitor has recommended me paying approx £100 for an indemnity policy.
I'm happy to do that, hopefully our buyers will be okay with it.

Obviously, you should be guided by your solicitor.

Indemnity insurance is a one off insurance to help with legal fees, should your building control decide to take you to court, in this case for not complying with building regs. Thats the conservatory building work not the electrical additions. It does not cover you (or your purchaser) to rectifying any alterations to comply. There is a time limit on that enforcement.

When I sold a few years ago, there's a legal document you have to sign, which ask some questions. You'll be asked about building alterations. You'll also be asked if there were any electrical alterations since 2005, which spookily is when Part P Building Regs was introduced. If you haven't any certification for electrical work or completion certificate for the building work, it might put off a vendor.

You could apply for retrospective completion certificate for your building work, you should seek advice on that, as it might open a can of worms. The electrical work, you could get an electrical installation condition report (EICR) to cover that. Some vendors might ask for an EICR for the whole house in any case.

 

[SJD]

At the end of the day, if you don't have the paperwork for some work done, you can just say you don't have it, and the buyer can choose whether it is a problem or not.

As an example, I've bought a house several years ago with no documentation for various electrical work, but I didn't care, as I can see the state of the wiring and easily correct anything if needed. On the other hand, if the building had serious structural work done e.g. underpinning subsidence, I'd be very concerned, as that is not something I could easily or cheaply fix if done badly.

 

[pirate]

Indemnity policies CAN be a get out of jail card, but in my experience they very seldom actually cover the full risk. Lawyers love them, but hardly ever read them properly, the client certainly doesn't, and it's only if a claim has to be made that their failings come to light. Fortunately, that seldom happens. The insurers pocket a premium for a very low risk, and everyone's happy!

 

[Midwest]

As said, indemnity insurance only helps against court action, not about putting things right. And as there is a limit on enforcement, probably not necessary in most cases.

 

[Mike Johnson]

House's are normally bought as seen, if the buyer wants extra work (EICR) or an indemnity they should pay for it IMO.