How to check if 3 phase is easily available for a flat ?

[tommmm]

My daughter lives in a flat in London in converted circa 1900 5 storey terrace in Bethnal Green. She is considering getting a Stiebel Eltron instant water heater fitted, however if she wants one that is powerful enough for a bath, she needs 3 phase. Are flats like houses in that each flat is on a different phase ? If so, I was wondering if it might be a cheaper job for her as the meter room for all 12 flats is right outside her flat, and if 3 phase was delivered to that room, it would just mean an Electrician taking the 3 phase from that room into her flat directly through the wall and installing a new distribution board. The meter room is locked (for obvious reasons) so does anyone know if there is any way to check if her building is served with 3 phase remotely, other that her paying an Electrician call out fee to come in and look at the meter room ?

 

[littlespark]

a standard electrician may not be able, or permitted to enter the meter room.
It may be under the control of the supplier/ meter operator.
If you contact them, through the bill helpline, they might point you in the right direction to having 3 ph into the flat... but that in itself could cost.

In days gone by, a regular 3kW single phase immersion heater, run off peak overnight, could give a bathful of water... as long as it wasnt all used up during the day.
what has got for heating water just now?

 

[tommmm]

a standard electrician may not be able, or permitted to enter the meter room.
It may be under the control of the supplier/ meter operator.
If you contact them, through the bill helpline, they might point you in the right direction to having 3 ph into the flat... but that in itself could cost.

In days gone by, a regular 3kW single phase immersion heater, run off peak overnight, could give a bathful of water... as long as it wasnt all used up during the day.
what has got for heating water just now?

She can only get electricity in the flat. She has a (rather large for a 1 bed flat) 180 litre unvented cylinder for kitchen and bathroom sink hot water, but strangely, an electric shower. The flat is just heated with electric convector heaters. She is currently on Economy 7 which is fine for the water heating overnight, but not great for the flat heating in the daytime as she works from home a lot. I've been doing some maths about what her best options are to control rising electricity costs. The absolute best option is probably stay on Economy 7 and install storage heaters, keep the water tank, and convert the shower to run off the hot water tank. The only downsides are the upfront installation costs, the fact that the flat is very small and even modern storage heaters would be a bulky fit, and that she might struggle to set the storage heaters correctly or just not have enough storage in them if she is at home all day. The next best option (which costs in quite closely) is to come off Economy 7, use an instant water heater for all hot water, (shower and bath included), and use some modern electric panel heaters (not as good as storage heaters I know, but probably better than her old convector heaters) and at least on a better daytime tariff. Getting rid of the 180L tank and piping also give her a lot more room in her small bathroom, and she would also not have to pay for a G3 safety check even year, or heat up the 180L of water to 60 degrees every night to guard against Legionella.

 

[Rockingit]

There’s a lot to unpack here. Firstly yes, I’d guess there’s probably a 3ph DNO head upstream so in theory it’s probably possible. However…. It will be extremely costly to bring about as it will probably involve more works than you might imagine and also probably require the entire building to be turned off for a period of time, so let’s hope she’s on good terms with neighbours. Also, in your maths, have you allowed for the increased standing charge that comes with a 3ph supply?

I’d have thought that by the time you’re £20k in a hole for getting all the changes done… that’s a lot of energy paid for instead!

 

[tommmm]

There’s a lot to unpack here. Firstly yes, I’d guess there’s probably a 3ph DNO head upstream so in theory it’s probably possible. However…. It will be extremely costly to bring about as it will probably involve more works than you might imagine and also probably require the entire building to be turned off for a period of time, so let’s hope she’s on good terms with neighbours. Also, in your maths, have you allowed for the increased standing charge that comes with a 3ph supply?

I’d have thought that by the time you’re £20k in a hole for getting all the changes done… that’s a lot of energy paid for instead!

So, no I didn't realise that if there was 3 phase coming into the building that it might still cost a lot to switch to it, and no, I didn't realise that the neighbours would have reason get their pitchforks out, and no I didn't realise that there would be a higher standing charge . I think that's the end of the 3 phase idea, but thanks for all the information I think we will still consider the largest single phase instant heater which is 13.3kw @ 230 V. That should be fine for sinks and a shower, and even in winter, should be able to produce hot water at about 5L per min, which would fill a bath in 20min for the rare times when she has a bath.

 

[brianmoooore]

I'd think carefully before removing the stored hot water facility. The tide is turning on the hot water storage versus instant hot water heating debate back towards storage, with the rise of renewable energy, etc.