My court case

[wade88]

Just moved over to here guys as i didn't want to go into detail on the public forum.

Long and short is i guess that i pretty much took the bloke to pieces. Even the judge seemed a little miffed at what he was on about.

His defense basically consisted of 9 points which he felt were the reasons behind not paying me. These points held no weight and certainly merited no financial compensation, he was just trying to build an angle to scrounge from. Because he was trying to get a total of £1345 knocked off the bill, he had just fabricated amounts of money he felt he should be owed that amounted to that money.

For example. A cold water pipe was screwed through. the screw plugged the hole, stop cock turned off in 90 seconds, 200 ml's of water spilled maximum, no damage, pipe was repaired by builder who was back on site next morning in 20 minutes, he had pipe in van. no one living in house, no inconvenience caused. Cost - 20 mins of builders time over first coffee of morning and 20p of copper pipe. I went back in asap, with 6 pack of beer for the builder, shook hand, talked about footy and ----- for ten minutes and left. Scrounger puts a cost of £200 against this.....

I left some floor boards up one night and left to go home, still had cable to lay next morning so felt no need to return floor boards and make extra work for myself, no one in house, no one planning on working next day but me. Plasterers (also the same builder) come in early to do some things, return floor boards to get trestles up and work etc, just laid them down temporarily until i came in. Scrounger is putting £150 on this for waste of builders time. Took the builder about 10 minutes to just lay boards in gaps, he never even mentioned anything to me. Why would he, trades just work around each other when on a job, thats the way it is.

So you get the idea, this is pretty much the trend of how he went on. And i just crushed him when given my chance to speak. Coupled with him not being able to provide a single invoice for his generated sums of money, the judge didnt seem too impressed with him, and i think she saw through his blatent attmepts at just trying to shave money off his bill.

He had little to say when adressed, just grunted, and umm'ed and ahh'ed lost for words. His wife just sat there shaking her head. She made a final attempt at trying to personally assault me at the end which iu felt was a little low, so i just smiled at her and lapped it up.

Of the £2345 i am owed, i imagine i will probably get £2000 - £2100 back and then i will be applying for my court fees to be paid on top which was a further £300-400.

Thanks for your interest guys, i get the final judgement in the post in the next few days, i will be sure to let you know the outcome. I am not 100% confident, but i hope its gone my way, it felt like it did on the day. But you never know. Fingers crossed now.

Ben

 

[Octopus]

Out of his "points/objections" how many did he raise with you, in writing, prior to the case going to court?

 

[telectrix]

looks promising. good luck with it.

 

[Robotstar5]

Sounds like my old boss, he would adjust prices to what he thought he could screw out of the customer!

Hope you get a good outcome

 

[wade88]

Out of his "points/objections" how many did he raise with you, in writing, prior to the case going to court?

As in, raised with me during the project going on? None.

I submitted my final invoice to him after generously giving him an extra 30 days to pay. He failed to pay. Then i recieved a letter blackmailing me, saying we will give you another £1000 and thats it, if you accept we wont take you to trading standards, if you decline then we will.

So i wrote back and said, pay me the money owed or i wont take further action. To which he replied is that a threat, to which he received, Yes.

It is at this point i pressume he began the fairy tale. He was having a full house renovation, decorating, re-wire, new kitchen extension, structural work etc. He had budgeted about £15,000 for all of this. Naive fool clearly didnt realise the extent of the work being carried out to the tune of probably around £60 large. So he had just run out of money, simple as that. And was clutching at straws at any which way possible, not save a few quid, unfortunately at my expense.

I have bills and a family too. People fail to realise that when trying to screw you for money. Thats my livelihood, thats my sons money he is trying to steal. That i resent. Don't we all

 

[Paul.M]

Ben well done mate for taking this to court and it looks like you will get the result you deserve. Good luck.

 

[Richard Burns]

Well done, good work, such a pity there are such people out there and it should take so long to sort.
I am glad that things have gone well, best wishes for the good judgement. Hope he does then pay within a short time.

Nearly there, Ben, quality work!

 

[trev]

Good result mate well done. All that remans now is for the money to atually be coughed up which may be the difficult bit but there's always the bailiffs and if nothing else you've made it hard for them to get credit now

 

[wade88]

Whilst there are a few of you clever clogs here, i need some help on a matter of SWA earthing.

Not yet had to do this and im getting a little tangled up with it.

I am soon installing a new TP+N board at work which i will be feeding with 25mm 4 core SWA. its a 50 metre run across 3 warehouses taken from the split incomming supply via service blocks. Now i cant do the adiabatic equation for the armour to ensure the CPC will suffice and frankly planned to just take a 16.00mm with it in parallel, belt and braces style. But im just getting a little frustrated i cant do this equation.

I know this is bread and butter stuff but its been so long since i have done it so go easy.

 

[baldelectrician]

Well done for standing your ground, although I can't undersand why the fees are over £300, as it's £65 in Scotland for a small claims (less than £3000), from £3000-£5000 it's a sumamry cause

I found that call recording (perfectly legal) deals with a lot of this argy bargy- if you can prove you discussed an item then it's an open goal for them

Another point- if you get a ccj and he pays within 30 days of the judgement then he can apply to have it removed from his credit file (as if it wasn't there). If you waif 30 days from judgement before you send in baliffs then his credit rating is screwed.

I would suggest (if he doesn't play ball and stalls) adding a charging order before others do as this will secure the (unsecured) debt against his houses (I don't know about Engalnd / Wales, but an inhibition order- equivalent of a charging order in Scotland- applies to ALL the property someone owes)

Don't get mad - get even

 

[Geordie Spark]

Just moved over to here guys as i didn't want to go into detail on the public forum.

Long and short is i guess that i pretty much took the bloke to pieces. Even the judge seemed a little miffed at what he was on about.

His defense basically consisted of 9 points which he felt were the reasons behind not paying me. These points held no weight and certainly merited no financial compensation, he was just trying to build an angle to scrounge from. Because he was trying to get a total of £1345 knocked off the bill, he had just fabricated amounts of money he felt he should be owed that amounted to that money.

For example. A cold water pipe was screwed through. the screw plugged the hole, stop cock turned off in 90 seconds, 200 ml's of water spilled maximum, no damage, pipe was repaired by builder who was back on site next morning in 20 minutes, he had pipe in van. no one living in house, no inconvenience caused. Cost - 20 mins of builders time over first coffee of morning and 20p of copper pipe. I went back in asap, with 6 pack of beer for the builder, shook hand, talked about footy and ----- for ten minutes and left. Scrounger puts a cost of £200 against this.....

I left some floor boards up one night and left to go home, still had cable to lay next morning so felt no need to return floor boards and make extra work for myself, no one in house, no one planning on working next day but me. Plasterers (also the same builder) come in early to do some things, return floor boards to get trestles up and work etc, just laid them down temporarily until i came in. Scrounger is putting £150 on this for waste of builders time. Took the builder about 10 minutes to just lay boards in gaps, he never even mentioned anything to me. Why would he, trades just work around each other when on a job, thats the way it is.

So you get the idea, this is pretty much the trend of how he went on. And i just crushed him when given my chance to speak. Coupled with him not being able to provide a single invoice for his generated sums of money, the judge didnt seem too impressed with him, and i think she saw through his blatent attmepts at just trying to shave money off his bill.

He had little to say when adressed, just grunted, and umm'ed and ahh'ed lost for words. His wife just sat there shaking her head. She made a final attempt at trying to personally assault me at the end which iu felt was a little low, so i just smiled at her and lapped it up.

Of the £2345 i am owed, i imagine i will probably get £2000 - £2100 back and then i will be applying for my court fees to be paid on top which was a further £300-400.

Thanks for your interest guys, i get the final judgement in the post in the next few days, i will be sure to let you know the outcome. I am not 100% confident, but i hope its gone my way, it felt like it did on the day. But you never know. Fingers crossed now.

Ben

Never EVER leave the boards up when you leave - even when you know the place is empty.

You may not believe this, but if an intruder (burglar) was to break into the property and fall through the hole in the floor he could sue you AND WIN!!

My Father worked at a company that had its own fleet of trucks and a garage to repair them in. The garage had an inspection pit which had wooden boards to cover it when it wasn't being used, but nobody ever bothered to cover it.

All was fine until the night a burglar broke in, fell down the open inspection pit & broke his leg & suffered other cuts & bruises etc. Served him right .... but same burglar then went on to sue and won !! The company also landed in the clarts with the then H M Inspectorate of Factories for their dangerous working practices.

In your case, the builder bloke arrived on site before you did & put the boards down, but what would have happened had he fallen down the hole & broken his ankle & had to take time off work .... would you all have been best of palls then??

Please do not think I'm "having a go" at you - I'm just trying to give you the benefit of something that I learned a long time ago.

As you've found out, this is unfortunately a dog-eat-dog world & if someone thinks they have a chance of screwing something out of you they probably will !!!

Good luck with the Court Case

 

[telectrix]

Whilst there are a few of you clever clogs here, i need some help on a matter of SWA earthing.

Not yet had to do this and im getting a little tangled up with it.

I am soon installing a new TP+N board at work which i will be feeding with 25mm 4 core SWA. its a 50 metre run across 3 warehouses taken from the split incomming supply via service blocks. Now i cant do the adiabatic equation for the armour to ensure the CPC will suffice and frankly planned to just take a 16.00mm with it in parallel, belt and braces style. But im just getting a little frustrated i cant do this equation.

I know this is bread and butter stuff but its been so long since i have done it so go easy.

thewre's a thread, a sticky " can i use the armour as cpc?" from that, i believe that 25mm SWA armour is sufficient on it's own, so you don't need the extra conductor. if you are fitting a 16mm, then that will more than cover it.

 

[Des 56]

Never EVER leave the boards up when you leave - even when you know the place is empty.

You may not believe this, but if an intruder (burglar) was to break into the property and fall through the hole in the floor he could sue you AND WIN!!

My Father worked at a company that had its own fleet of trucks and a garage to repair them in. The garage had an inspection pit which had wooden boards to cover it when it wasn't being used, but nobody ever bothered to cover it.

All was fine until the night a burglar broke in, fell down the open inspection pit & broke his leg & suffered other cuts & bruises etc. Served him right .... but same burglar then went on to sue and won !! The company also landed in the clarts with the then H M Inspectorate of Factories for their dangerous working practices.

In your case, the builder bloke arrived on site before you did & put the boards down, but what would have happened had he fallen down the hole & broken his ankle & had to take time off work .... would you all have been best of palls then??

Please do not think I'm "having a go" at you - I'm just trying to give you the benefit of something that I learned a long time ago.

As you've found out, this is unfortunately a dog-eat-dog world & if someone thinks they have a chance of screwing something out of you they probably will !!!

Good luck with the Court Case

This is sometimes hard to accept but unbelievable and true
A few years back my local club was heavily fined for not making sure beer that barrels were secure when a child ( more of a youth) got injured after climbing a "high wal" to gain access to the rear of the cellar which was almost unpenetrable

 

[vernam616]

It really annoys me to read things like this, why on earth do people think its ok not to pay?

Seriously would they walk into the chip shop, order fish and chips "thats £4.50 please"

"erm ill give you £3 ok? "

You just wouldnt do it, so why do people think its ok to do when it comes to services rendered, lets hope he gets a fine

 

[Silly Sausage]

It's not just that, in these cases the court orders the person to pay up, but that's it, the Court have washed their hands of the problem.
They'll never chase it up, it's down to the claimant to get the money.

If it was a parking ticket or Council Tax, they'll hound you down to the ends of the earth to get payment, (doubling the fine each time you miss the deadline with PCNs). Spent a night in the cells once over Council Tax! W@nkers.

 

[Darkwood]

Reading your OP Wade i see you may have been back stabbed by your builder 'mates' .... how was he aware of these things ..... i bet he challanged each trade why their bills were so high and a few of them said they were higher because...... didn't expect to be repairing pipes or laying floorboards because of the sparky as these take time and add to bill, he clearly never approached you to hear your side and he's now looking like a fool but be weary of other companies on sight they will hang you out to dry to ensure they get payed no matter how matey you think you are with them.

 

[baldelectrician]

It's not just that, in these cases the court orders the person to pay up, but that's it, the Court have washed their hands of the problem.
They'll never chase it up, it's down to the claimant to get the money.

If it was a parking ticket or Council Tax, they'll hound you down to the ends of the earth to get payment, (doubling the fine each time you miss the deadline with PCNs). Spent a night in the cells once over Council Tax! W@nkers.

In Scotland you serve a notice using a Sheriff Officer andwait 2 weeks.

After 2 weeks you can apply for;

• arrestment of earnings, or
• freezing of bank account, or
• place an 'inhibition order' on his properties - this lasts for 5 years and can be renewed after the 5 year period for another 5 years. This means that property can not be sold, or remortgaged until the balance is paid (plus 8% statutory interest from date of service)

They can serve a 'rent arrestment order' on a letting agent or tenant making it an offence for them to pass rent monies due to the landlord- they have to pass rent to the sheriff officer

 

[Marvo]

I'm glad your court case sounded promising and I hope you get your money and your costs eventually.

 

[scotsparky]

Whilst there are a few of you clever clogs here, i need some help on a matter of SWA earthing.

Not yet had to do this and im getting a little tangled up with it.

I am soon installing a new TP+N board at work which i will be feeding with 25mm 4 core SWA. its a 50 metre run across 3 warehouses taken from the split incomming supply via service blocks. Now i cant do the adiabatic equation for the armour to ensure the CPC will suffice and frankly planned to just take a 16.00mm with it in parallel, belt and braces style. But im just getting a little frustrated i cant do this equation.

I know this is bread and butter stuff but its been so long since i have done it so go easy.

If its a BS standard SWA then have a look at the manufacturers spec for the cable. (its probbably online) That should give that will give you a resistance per Kilometer for the SWA. The k factor is from BGB

http://www.gadsolutions.biz/regulations/swa-as-a-cpc

 

[wade88]

Thanks for all your posts lads,

In regards to the floor boards Geordie, i totally agree, it was lazy on my behalf no question about it - bad practice without a doubt. I just dont feel it merits a financial penalty against the work i did for him. Had they had an issue with the H&S aspect of it, that would have been a different story. The scrounger was just trying to dig up excuses to not pay.

And Darkwood, this builder was certainly no mate of mine, on face value, whilst working together in the same house, he was friendly as they come, had nothing nice to say about the clients either, but when things turned sour, he got right back in their pocket, even gave a witness statement against me! So he hardly qualifies as a pal of mine.

Anyway, got my letter back from the court, the judge who heard our case feels she is inexperienced enough in this field to make a fair judgement,m so it has been handed down. Im furious. This case is so black and white i would have put my faith in a deaf monkey, i did a job, client did not pay, excuses are comical. End of.