Neutrals in switches

[Tilecutter]

Hi all. I'm new to the forums. Ive been a practicing electrician now for a couple of years having been back to night school and got my 2330 and 2391 and 17th edition quals. My main buisness is bathroom installation but now do electrical works also. Primarily I got the quals so I could get on with buisness, and wasnt being held up waiting for the part P spark to fit me in. Ive come across, on a couple of occasions nuetrals in the switches joined together by a terminal block. Especially loft lights. Now I know this is supposed to be a no no. I cant seem to find it in the regs where it states this, in order to clarify this to the customer. Can anyone enlighten me please as to the location and anybody any views on the matter would be appreciated.

 

[Brightspark2]

It ISN'T a no no and as such you WON'T find it in the regs.

Its perfectly acceptable squire.

 

[7029 dave]

no where in the regs says you can't, but it is classed (or was) as bad practise

 

[Marvo]

As far as I know there's no regs that would forbid it. It's a contentious issue that's been discussed on here a few times.

 

[Thefailsafe2012]

no where in the regs says you can't, but it is classed (or was) as bad practise

Shouldn't be classed as bad practice, nothing wrong with taking a neutral to a switch. I'd recommend it in fact for something like an outside light. Sometimes I find it easier to 3 plate at the switch for down lights as well so to avoid having a jb up the ceiling.

But in larger switches its not practical to try and terminate a feed in, feed out, 4 switch lines and a shaver feed or what ever.

Horses for courses an' all that

 

[lockhes]

i do it somdo others i dont see a problem at all with it

awaits abuse

 

[Silly Sausage]

Aye, subject done to death before!
For the record, nowt wrong with it in my book (if/when the situation/need arises).

 

[7029 dave]

Shouldn't be classed as bad practice, nothing wrong with taking a neutral to a switch. I'd recommend it in fact for something like an outside light. Sometimes I find it easier to 3 plate at the switch for down lights as well so to avoid having a jb up the ceiling.

agreed ive done it when needed,all I will say many years ago some scheme providers (clue)pulled us up on it.

 

[Thefailsafe2012]

agreed ive done it when needed,all I will say many years ago some scheme providers (clue)pulled us up on it.

Haha and did they have a reg no. to back it up?

 

[7029 dave]

lol remember was second fixing and some bright sparks had 3 plated wall lights 3pairs at first and looped the rest 2pairs at each light was tearing me hair out lol

 

[Guitarist]

Nothing wrong with neutrals in switches....
Well done for jumping on the electrical bandwagon, along with fitting bathrooms.... At least time-served electricians have a bit more leisure time now

 

[Adam W]

Old electricians will try to tell you it's 'bad practice' because back in the day when different types of lighting were restricted to different types of lampshade, the live was always looped at the rose because that's how it was done and that's how they were taught to do it.
Most modern fittings don't have a loop terminal, or even a rose, so it makes more sense to loop the neutral at the switch instead.
My only argument against it is if a DIYer decides they don't use a 2 way switch but since the backbox is already cut in a socket would be handy to plug the vacuum cleaner in...

 

[northeastsparx]

im testing new builds at the moment,and find more than ever now that taking neutrals to switches is the norm, especially with so many downlights being installed, at least there are no hidden jb's within the ceilings.

i welcome it.....

 

[Guitarist]

My only argument against it is if a DIYer decides they don't use a 2 way switch but since the backbox is already cut in a socket would be handy to plug the vacuum cleaner in...

You're giving them far too much credit.

 

[amlu]

i do it every time this days. terminate the earths into earth terminal in the back box, terminate neutrals into a wago block.

permanent ones in the middle of the circuit, removable one at end of the line to make testing easier.

installing lights, especially fancy ones supplied by customers is much, much easier when there is only one wire to terminate when doing monkey job on the ladder

 

[kingeri]

If you trust my response........

I often loop at the switch these days although I never saw it done when I was training. It depends on the situation. IF the punter wants just a single pendant in each room (rare these days!), then I still loop at the fitting, generally.

 

[7029 dave]

Old electricians will try to tell you it's 'bad practice' because back in the day when different types of lighting were restricted to different types of lampshade, the live was always looped at the rose because that's how it was done and that's how they were taught to do it.
Most modern fittings don't have a loop terminal, or even a rose, so it makes more sense to loop the neutral at the switch instead.
My only argument against it is if a DIYer decides they don't use a 2 way switch but since the backbox is already cut in a socket would be handy to plug the vacuum cleaner in...

But with conduit work the loop in method was all ways at the switch, the neutrals were still at the rose/ light fitting!!

 

[Tilecutter]

Aye, subject done to death before!
For the record, nowt wrong with it in my book (if/when the situation/need arises).

Cheers all, for the enlightenment ( no pun intended).

 

[cornishboy]

In the future there is suggestion that It may be a requirement to have a neutral at a switch with the growth of PIR and occupancy switches. I often loop feeds in switches so I only have a single cable at the light fitting makes second fix easier when u have a very shallow back plate and your expected to loose three twin and earths in the back of it,Hager Solysta have an neutral terminal in the plate sometimes I actually forget its there

 

[Marvo]

I don't think change would come easy, there's still a fair contingent of UK sparks who feel strongly against it.