New solar panels poor performance, can't contact solar company! Apolo solar.

[jojitsu]

Hi all, I just stumbled across this forum and I'd very much appreciate a bit of advice from you kind and knowledgeable folk..

My wife and I bought a new (to us) house at the beginning of last year, and after much though decided to have pv solar panels fitted.. After some research and a few quotes, we decided to go with a company that was recommended to us from a very savy, elderly neighbour (before retiring he was the chief engineer at a paper mill), who could not speak highly enough of his panels, and more importantly, the professionalism of the company who fitted them.. The panels where fitted in April, to our SSW facing garden, that is a great sun trap and not overlooked, and with no shade, and with a nicely pitched roof.. The maximum 4kw (3.9kw to be precise).. Anyway, long story short, after the best summer I can remember, the panels are doing a rubbish job, as far as I can see.. Looking at the invertor, they have never excexed an input of 2.4kw, and at this moment in time have only clocked up 1340kw.. That's in 10 months of mostly great weather!

For the last couple of months I have been trying to Contact the company, but the phone lines have been disconnected and they don't reply to emails.. I fear and image they have gone bust!

I was planning on doing some daily comparisons with my neighbour, as he kept accurate readings most days in his diary, and clocking up some big numbers with his panels, that are also 4kw, but are spread over both the front and back of his roof, with half of them facing North Easterly, So, much less desirable than mine.. Sadly my neighbour suffered a bad stroke before I had the chance to compare..

I'd really appreciate some advice on getting the problem solved, as me and my wife don't know where to start! Pretty much all of my wife's savings went into buying the panels, and we wish we had spent the money on much needed house improvements..

The company we used are called apollo-solar, and are/where based in Huddersfield, Yorkshire.

Solar Panels Huddersfield | Apollo Solar Installations Huddersfield

Any help and advice would be great..

Sorry for any typos, I'm writing this on my phone..

Ps, our house is in Bury, North of Manchester.

 

[SolarCity]

It sounds to me like you may have a string down. Although the output of 2.4kWp from your inverter suggests something else is wrong.

Can you take some photos of the inverter, isolators etc?

 

[Gavin A]

What's the make and model of inverter? a picture would be very helpful as well.

 

[Gavin A]

ps Apollo solar and Apollo energy tech ltd seem to still be trading.

 

[jojitsu]

Many thanks for your responses... Im new here so gonna try and upload a couple of photos now...When I work out how to do it!

 

[telectrix]

save your pics to desktop in low res. then at the top of your reply box, you'll see a toolbar. towards the right is an icon " insert image". just follow the steps to upload.

 

[jojitsu]

 

[jojitsu]

gonna get my wife to pull out the documents with all the details on..

Gavin, I know the website is still up and running but they never respond to emails and the telephone lines are always down 8(

 

[jojitsu]

.. Just had a look at the inverter and it is a

Aurora, power-one model PV1-3.6-TL-OUTD

 

[jojitsu]

Solar panel details :
3.92KWp Solar PV System
Comprimising of:
16 Kinve 245W solar pv panels
Schuco on roof mounting system
Power One PVI 3.6 inverter

 

[Ian-LS]

Do you have any shading issues at all?

 

[jojitsu]

Do you have any shading issues at all?

No, we are lucky enough to be not overlooked by anything, just a nice Valley behind us, completely shade free.

 

[Green]

Do you know how many panels are on each string?

 

[jojitsu]

Do you know how many panels are on each string?

No, but I don't really know what that means.. I can look if you can advice me what I'm looking for?
Thanks..

 

[Green]

It would probably be too tricky to spot from the ground, might be worth looking if there is anything in your design pack. For instance if you had one string of six/seven panels and one of ten/nine, but the string of ten/nine wasn't working then that could explain the current performance.

 

[jojitsu]

It would probably be too tricky to spot from the ground, might be worth looking if there is anything in your design pack. For instance if you had one string of six/seven panels and one of ten/nine, but the string of ten/nine wasn't working then that could explain the current performance.

Well I have easy access to the loft, where the inverter is, and also have a velux window in my roof whith the solar panels built around it, so may be able to look?

 

[Ian-LS]

The inverter should switch between each MPPT or string on its small display screen giving you string voltages. They should be very similar if 8 panels per string, if one string was not working then the string voltages would show this up.

 

[solarsavings]

If you go to the inverter you will see up/down arrows. Using one of the arrows scroll through until you reach:

Vin1
Iin1

Vin2
Iin2

Please let us know what readings you have. They will be something like Vin1 380V Iin1 1.5A

 

[jojitsu]

 

[jojitsu]

On this video at about 2.30 mins in, he describes Pin1 and Pin2 as the power coming off each "array".. Well My Pin1 produces practically nothing, if that's relevant to my setup..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzcI8oU7WYM

 

[Gavin A]

ok input 1 isn't working properly, given your max figure, my suspicion is they haven't set up the dual tracker / parrallel tracking system correctly as IIRC 2.4kW is the peak output from one side by itself.

but I'm a bit confused by the voltage reading on Vin1

it will be simple enough to fix probably, unless there's another issue with string 1 developed as well

 

[jojitsu]

ok input 1 isn't working properly, given your max figure, my suspicion is they haven't set up the dual tracker / parrallel tracking system correctly as IIRC 2.4kW is the peak output from one side by itself.

but I'm a bit confused by the voltage reading on Vin1

it will be simple enough to fix probably, unless there's another issue with string 1 developed as well

Ok, that sounds slightly reassuring, I only wish I'd have pushed the issue with the fitters soon after getting them fitted!
How would you suggest I would go about getting the problem fixed?

Again, thank you so much for your advice!

 

[jojitsu]

.. Just to say, the max it had given out (Ppk) is actually 2502W, not 2.4kw as I wrongly said earlier.. Sorry for the wrong number..

 

[FB.]

The 240 (ish) Volts from the functional string suggests 8 x panels operating at an optimum of about 30 Volts (8 x 30 = 240V), so you probably have two strings of eight panels which is not unusual for a full-size 3.8-4kW, 16-panel array.

If your panels are nearly South-facing they will probably produce real-world peak power a bit higher than their nominal value, which probably explains peak readings of 2.4-2.5kW which would be consistent with one string of eight panels operating a bit above their nominal rating of 2kW in perfect conditions (mid-day, late spring/early summer, sunny, cool, breezy, shortly after rainfall has just cooled and cleaned the panels).

As said earlier: it looks like one of the two strings isn't working at all. Basically your 'engine' is only firing on two cylinders.

Probably a very simple fault on the 'dead' string of panels; either not being connected properly or the inverter not set to receive from two strings.

 

[SolarCity]

142v is not enough for the MPPT to operate, assuming the inverter has been left in its default setting.

The inverter needs 200v before it will start which is why there is zero amps showing. The voltage start up can be lowered, but there appears to be something wrong which i causing the low voltage.

What kind of a layout are the panels in? I wonder whether one of the strings has a couple of panels wired back to front? Possibly due to an incorrectly installed fly cable, perhaps around the velux window?

 

[Earthstore]

That could explain it ^^^^
Install looks quite tidy though, nice to see cables nicly clipped too, after some of the carp that customers post on here..

 

[Gavin A]

actually my previous post is not quite right, the limit per tracker is 3kW not 2.4, but there's something odd with the inverter as the 3.6 should have 2 x pairs of inputs on input A, and yours only has 1 pair.

 

[jojitsu]

142v is not enough for the MPPT to operate, assuming the inverter has been left in its default setting.

The inverter needs 200v before it will start which is why there is zero amps showing. The voltage start up can be lowered, but there appears to be something wrong which i causing the low voltage.

What kind of a layout are the panels in? I wonder whether one of the strings has a couple of panels wired back to front? Possibly due to an incorrectly installed fly cable, perhaps around the velux window?

Please excuse my childlike, not to scale sketch, but this is the layout..

 

[SolarCity]

What do those numbers represent?

 

[jojitsu]

What do those numbers represent?

Nothing. Ignore them.. Just the 16 panels, just in case it wasn't obvious..

 

[SolarCity]

In that case I would say that the incorrectly terminated fly lead is looking a likely cause. I would expect 6 panels wired correctly and 2 panels wired with incorrect polarity to produce a Voc of around 140v.

Surprising if this is the cause as it doesn't appear to be a badly installed system.

 

[jojitsu]

Well that all sounds like it may, hopefully be a not too big of a job, but it also all sounds a bit like a foreign language to me! I have managed to contact a local fitter who seems to know what he's on about, and has been in the business for a long time, with a good rep. He is coming to my place tomorrow afternoon to run some test.. Again, I can't thank you enough for the time and input you guys have given me! Tomorrow I'll definitely be showing the guy this thread! I just hope he doesn't try to rob blind my already empty pockets!.. I imagine he will give me a quote for the fix, based on electricians rates.. Hopefully without scaffolding! At the moment the wife is really annoyed that I came up with the idea of getting panels fitted!

 

[SolarCity]

With a bit of luck it may be possible to repair it from the velux window.

 

[jojitsu]

[QUOTE solarCity;906237]With a bit of luck it may be possible to repair it from the velux window.[/QUOTE]

I really hope so!.. Just my luck that they are giving crap results! I still love the idea of the panels, but as it stands they are such a poor place to put the money! I could understand that with living up north they may peak at about 3.5 to 3.7kw or so, but not 2.5!.. What do you think could be expected on a perfect sunny day in Manchester with a 4kw system?.. As it stands they will produce about 1400kw or so over the year, with the best summer in my memory! So about £240 ish!

 

[SolarCity]

I reckon you should expect to see 3,000kWh plus annually, depending on shading etc.

 

[jojitsu]

I reckon you should expect to see 3,000kWh plus annually, depending on shading etc.

In that case, roll on the fix, and the summer months!

 

[jojitsu]

Ok, so I've had a trusty, local solar fitter around today to test my system, and as suspected, one of the 2 string are doing nothing! This was even backed up by the original install certificate documents: line 2 is looking fine and the original fitter has written that its putting out 264 Voc, and 2.3 Isc (?), but, line 1 is at 145 Voc (but was actually even less when tested today!), and Isc 0.1!!! This should have been sorted at the install, surely! Its all a bit of a foreign language to me, but it sure ain't correct!

So the bad new is I have probably lost about £700 worth of lecky in FIT and bill reduction (my panels clocking up about 1400 all year, whilst the fitter who came today has the same settup with a garden facing the same way, in the same town and produced 4600kw over the last 12 months), and unfortunately all the panels need taking off and testing, with the use of scaffolding!

Good news is that we are insured through IWA, so they should pay for the fix, touch wood!

 

[jason121]

ps Apollo solar and Apollo energy tech ltd seem to still be trading.

Not if the company is still trading

 

[jojitsu]

Not if the company is still trading

Also just found out (the wife is doing most of the investigation) that they are about to be struck off/go into liquidation..

 

[jason121]

just had a quick look he did have 7 companies, solar company cease trading. He now runs Kovco Holdings Ltd and scaffold 4 ltd

 

[jojitsu]

just had a quick look he did have 7 companies, solar company cease trading. He now runs Kovco Holdings Ltd and scaffold 4 ltd

Really? ... Might be worth me giving them a phone call!!

 

[SolarCity]

I have a feeling you'll be wasting your time.

 

[jojitsu]

I agree... I can't believe the fitter did such a tidy/neat job, and seemed really professional, but left them like this! I am kicking myself for not fixing the issue sooner..

 

[SolarCity]

The electrician was probably trained up to a certain point but then had little knowledge of how PV works. It is incredibly sad that someone would go to the trouble of testing his work yet have no idea what the figures meant.

 

[jojitsu]

Well there's no point in testing it if when you find something wrong you don't fix it!
I really hope the insurance doesn't give us any problems, otherwise they will have to stay as they are.

 

[Richard]

Don't forget, the people who he employs could be the best of electricians, but how they run their business could be a different matter all together! Best of luck getting it sorted

 

[jojitsu]

I would imagine the best of electricians would not leave the job like this.. Thanks for your input, really appreciate it.

 

[jason121]

I had something similar to this, when i tested both strings didn't match but put it down to being late evening. I told customer watch if both trackers didn't match a week later PIN 2 stop working. MC4 connector had not been pushed together tightly and burnt out. Luck was in was a bungalow

 

[jojitsu]

Just an update, and not a good one! The IWA (insurance company linked with my solar install) have been in touch and are saying because it looks like the panels were installed incorrectly and there was a fault from the beginning, it was up to Apollo to fix them before they went into liquidation, and that they won't pay for the repairs!! I feel absolutely sick!! It was only a couple of weeks back that I found out for certain that there is a fault with the system, and when I suspected a fault later last year I tried to contact Apollo to get it looked at, but they wouldn't answer the phone as they had just gone, or going bust!!

I just don't know what to do: all our savings went into getting the bloody panels fitted in the first place, now, instead of making money they are causing nothing but stress!! I wish I never came up with the idea of getting them fitted!

 

[jerriais]

Out of interest, what reason did IWA give for determining the panels were installed incorrectly? In my experience, if you go strictly by the book, most of the panels I see are installed incorrectly according to the installation manual, especially with reference to the correct location of the clamps. They should be at or close to the 25% and 75% marks on the long side of the panels but many times I see them far too near the ends of the panels. I really don't get that as it's not as if that would even save the installers time or money to do it that way but it would invalidate the warranty for most panels.